I need a distro that is stable with a particular need to set up zero input automatic updates. If an update asks for a password or needs user interaction in basically any way it simply won’t get done. All he needs is a reliable platform for browsing the web. I am replacing an Ubuntu system that has apparently just stopped working (I have not had a chance to examine it yet) after years and years of not getting proper updates after he forgot his password.
Something like Bazzite is intriguing because of it’s locked down environment although he is very much not a gamer. Is there something locked down like Bazzite but with long term LTS release cycle?
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Define what you mean by “locked down”. If you don’t give your user superuser privileges, every distro is locked down because the user can only ever write to their own /home
I’d strongly recommend Mint:
- with Cinnamon DE: very Windows-esque UI
- Ubuntu / Debian-based, i.e. rock-solid, unlikely to break
- 100% automated updates (including automatic removal of old kernels so your /boot won’t get clogged
- Timeshift system snapshots in case something does break. (Note: I’ve only ever used Timeshift to un-fuck systems that I, personally, had fucked with superuser rights and manual meddling.)
Seconded. Absolutely what I’d install in this kind of situation. I have an old machine set up for my wife with Mint. She only uses it to check her bank account, basically. So far zero issues.
I can also recommend Linux Mint. It’s a great general purpose option for both beginners and experienced users.
Debian and install the “unattended-upgrades” package.
You set it up with an email address to complain to when something fucks up and it just works.
E: no matter what you end up going with, some kind of reverse proxy or vpn will be helpful for when you need to remote in and fix something.
If you end up needing Remote Desktop and can do it, stay away from Wayland. The screen sharing situation there is confusing and annoying for seasoned users, let alone in a tech support situation.
What might be a better bet is either a windows (robust screen sharing setup) or mac (simpler interface and reliability) computer. You’re gonna be on the other end of it, so make sure to pick what you know the most deeply when it comes to remote support.
E2: another note in the vein of hated non linux oses: Those might be good because other people in the users life may be familiar with them and it won’t be such a pain when they wanna open a file or something.
I currently have an older relative using Debian/KDE with unattended-updates and few issues over the past year. Laptop was previously Windows 10, has had replacement battery and HDD->SSD swap, wouldn’t be supported by Windows 11, but is totally capable of running most modern apps.
Browsers can just be flatpak/snap/ppa and auto-update whenever, as Debian’s packaged (ESR) versions might get a bit dated.
From my own experiences with Ubuntu variants, I’ve always had some kind of issue when doing a release update, so I’ve personally stopped using it, but maybe thats just me.
Only significant issues I’ve encountered are with some flatpaks needing permission tweaks to (re-)enable printing, webcam, or filesystem access, and potentially over-doing the ad-block extensions/settings leading some sites to break - its worth setting up multiple browsers to pre-empt and work around those problems.
For remote access, it’s not a problem in my case, but you could potentially just setup a VPN with something like tailscale and just ssh over that. Once connected, I’d explore systems like VNC or KDE’s built-in remote access system. In the short/medium term, it would be easier to stick with X11 for that, but at some point, Wayland and those supporting tools are going to reach parity and distributions/desktop environments will drop X11 entirely - best to future-proof as much as you can.
For regular maintenance, it’s worth checking-in regularly to make sure the system and user is happy, and maybe setting a cron-job for house-keeping tasks (removing old kernel files and temp files, checking disk-usage/health), and having that notify you. But that probably depends how physically hands-on you’ll be.
I installed Fedora Silverblue on my parent’s laptop almost a year ago and I haven’t had any complaints or issues.
They’re really not tech literate or heavy users so Silverblue is the perfect fit. I installed and configured Librewolf and Bitwarden for them and everything has been running fine. Everything else is vanilla Silverblue.
They don’t know or don’t care about updating software. But Silverblue does flatpak updates automatically in the background. OS and firmware updates are integrated and handled via the Gnome Software Center, so I’ll click the install button every so often when I visit. No terminal required! There is a password prompt, but at least it’s a GNOME shell password prompt, not a terminal password prompt.
Additionally, I was able to get LUKS encryption working without my parents noticing: https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/encryption-advice-for-silverblue/162810/7
It’s not the most secure LUKS implementation, but I’m also not worried about state actors hacking my parent’s laptop. Originally, I skipped the disk encryption entirely because the extra password prompt made it harder to use the computer.
Update: Actually, maybe there aren’t any password prompts to update the system. Last night when I shutdown my laptop, I saw there was a “critical update” in GNOME Software Center. I left it alone and didn’t click anything. But when I went to shutdown the laptop, the GNOME shutdown dialog had a marked checkbox that said something like “also apply OS updates on shutdown”. I clicked shutdown and (again no password prompt) the computer shutdown. When I rebooted the computer today, I see there are no more pending software updates!
I use Aurora for my wife’s laptop. It, Bluefin, and Bazzite come from Silverblue.
If you want GNOME: Bluefin or Bazzite.
KDE: Aurora or Bazzite.
Like Silverblue, updates happen in the background automatically. You just have to restart the computer to pick up OS updates.
If you want GNOME: Bluefin or Bazzite.
Why Bluefin or Bazzite over just regular Silverblue? I’m running Silverblue on a Thinkpad and all the hardware works fine.
I’m a mint hater but mint is the choice here. You’ll need to monitor the transition from x11 to wayland but other than that it should be fine.
You can check out Bluefin and Aurora, which are Bazzite without the gaming. Pick the former if they’re used to macOS, the latter if Windows.
Kinoite and Silverblue are the official spins with less bloat if you will. Either way, I’ve installed Kinoite on a few people’s computers with zero Linux experience and they’ve not had any issues besides a few minor questions that they would have on any OS.
I don’t think Kinoite and Silverblue have automatic background updates like Bluefin and Aurora do, do they?
I believe you can enable auto updates in settings
Don’t think in terms of easy to use and unbreakable. You won’t get that because something as simple as losing icons on the desktop is the kinda thing that’ll confuse someone that’s bad with computers. Instead, think in terms of what’s going to be easy for you to fix when you inevitably have to play tech support.
ixnay on anything but the vanillaest of the vanillas and that goes triple for bazzite and friends. you don’t want “intriguing” shit left behind to take care of pops, that’s a thing for you to play and experiment with.
your solution is already staring you in the face: the ubuntu you left behind persevered even under those circumstances. either fix it and update it or install a fresh one, with a tweak here and there. and don’t touch nothing else…
Take a look at the immutable distros like Fedora Silverblue. It would install updates automatically, and has the ability to always rollback to a working version. I haven’t used it long enough to have version upgrades tested. Perhaps it asks for user input. These upgrades happen twice a year.
If I was doing that these days with my current skills, I’d install some minimal version of Arch Linux and probably would remote into it once in a while to update, or invent some simple script to do the updates unattended. The lesser the packages the easier the whole task.
Also, don’t forget there’s Chrome OS which you can install on a regular PC. (It was called Chrome OS Flex last time I did that for a relative.) It’s the easiest I can remember right now. That’s for situations when all they need is actually just a browser. For those cases Chrome OS shines.
I’ve put my dad on Bluefin (same project as Bazzite). It’s perfect. Major upgrades are the same as weekly updates. Transparent and uneventful. It’s been almost 2 years and zero major complaints. He even finally accepted to ditch his ancient MacBook Air since I installed the Affinity suite on his Linux laptop. It was his last holdover.
Fedora Atomic Distros are great. I only run into minor issues with major updates in combination with Ffmpeg Codecs layered to the install. But I guess that’s a rare usecase.
Honestly, I don’t understand whether there’s anyone who doesn’t need normal codecs. I hate this part of Fedora, as I always need to remember to install these codecs.
Take a look at the immutable distros like Fedora Silverblue
Nah. The moment they want to run a exe from a desktop shortcut (and not via rightclick on the entry in the second tab of a GUI tool) or you to run a setup script, things get messy.
I don’t know much about immutable distros, but I do know that wine installs everything in
~/.wine/drive_cand automatically places .desktop files in your desktop directory whenever you install a program that creates a desktop shortcut, all of which should work just fine on immutable distros.Except you have to run wine via distrobox or toolbox and there it behaves different. The toolbox one also has an issue with it being virtualized it seems. And forget about a runner script that prevents the integration of random .exe for security.
The distro doesn’t matter, the Desktop Environment does.
If they are used to MacOS and want something simple and “out of the way”, go with Gnome.
If they are used to Windows, go with KDE.
Fedora is probably the most straightforward to install and manage right now. You won’t need to “lock down” anything if you don’t give them sudo credentials.and just a regular user account.
If they are used to Windows, go with KDE.
I’d say Cinnamon or XFCE. Plenty customizable enough for this use case and very straightforward.
Facts. XFCE should be familiar to anyone who has operated a computer in the last 25 years
Budgie might be easier for someone who isn’t a technical user.
My thought was XFCE feels a lot like XP/7 era Windows, and so would be familiar. But I can see Budgie being attractive for someone where it’s just like “here’s the button for your email, here’s how you get on the internet” and they don’t need to touch anything else.
you’re on the right track, i think, but not bazzite–that carries a lot of extra stuff that isn’t necessary here. just ordinary fedora silverblue. clean up the app grid or put dash-to-dock on it and put the few launchers they need down on that. gnome is actually a good desktop for basic users that just need to run one or a few applications. updates are somewhat frequent but should be almost entirely automatic.
i have a few users like your parents on endless os, which is similar to silverblue, just based on an in-house immutable debian instead of silverblue’s fedora base. i rarely ever hear from them, it ‘just works’. i also have it at home, it’s currently my only linux desktop there (i do most my ‘work’ at the office, home is just doom-scrolling and media for the most part these days). updates are less frequent but endless is switching to a gnome os base with the next major version. that will probably increase the frequency of updates a bit compared to their older debian base. that upgrade to v7 should be mostly invisible to the user, they’ve done a good job in the past with upgrades.
I agree that Bazzite might be too much, but Aurora or Bluefin from the same maintainers as Bazzite works perfectly fine and has all the auto-update goodness. I have it running on most of my family’s PCs. Just uninstall not needed flatpaks after initial setup.
Endless OS sounds interesting!
I think more important than which distro to choose is you setting up remote access for yourself. Tailscale and maybe rust desk or something would be a good idea. Or if you want to go further a vpn connection to a KVM device, some of them support being able to wire into the power button so you have full control. I would also have their account info in your password manager. Then you don’t need them to remember anything because you can do it when needed.
elementaryos is great for just this. haven’t used it in a while but i remember it being the most polished user experience on linux.
Is there something locked down like Bazzite but with long term LTS release cycle?
The only high confidence projects I know of are:
- Bluefin LTS
- Endless OS, also see its documentation
There’s also stuff like HeliumOS, stillOS and probably other images based (in)directly on RHEL Image Mode.
Any atomic distro + flatpak packages.
Atomic distros don’t support all packages, even flatpaks
I’m aure they support Firefox + email client + a few card games to spend time between sending an email and waiting a reply.
They do support these. These specific ones do work fine but others not so much. I would recommend something more closer to Ubuntu like Linux Mint
The OP’s elderly parents won’t need anything else. Have you forgotten that one of his specs is to minimize password usage and updating?
You could try Aurora, it’s made by the same people as Bazzite but with a general (or developer) focus instead of a gamer focus, and while it’s not LTS I think it updates less rapidly than Bazzite.
If your user is really tech un-savvy though, I’d just go with ChromeOS Flex. For all their (many) faults Google do at least produce a simple all-in-one experience, and I’d rather my elderly relative use Chrome’s password manager than no password manager at all.
