It’s really sad because prior to being acquired by Musk the company was actually doing something really interesting and disrupting an industry badly in need of a shakeup. Then muskrat comes in, ousts the founder, steals the credit, and proceeds to fuck everything up.
So far Space-X has managed to avoid Musk screwing things up, I guess actual rocket science is too technical for Musk to micromanage it to death. In a perfect world they would manage to oust him from the company completely and continue doing good work, but I guess we’ll see how it turns out. Hopefully when Musk gets tired of breaking his new toy over at Twitter he finds something else to fuck up and doesn’t head back to Space-X.
I guess I disagree with the premise that we needed the shakeup. Plug in hybrids were already a thing that multiple manufacturers were migrating to.
Instead, the idea became full electric or bust but also that you need massive capacity to go anywhere and do forth.
We’ll never truly know but I am of the opinion that all Tesla did was prevent widespread adoption of hybrids while increasing battery anxiety. And we are probably within a few years of the switch to full battery electric anyway.
And SpaceX has led to a cult that hate the space shuttle (and other space planes) for the wrong reasons (and there were plenty of right ones to choose from…). And the concept of reusable rockets have most of the same issues that the shuttle did. All while poaching talent from NASA
I guess I disagree with the premise that we needed the shakeup. Plug in hybrids were already a thing that multiple manufacturers were migrating to.
Hybrids have always been a terrible half step. They’re better than a non-electric in terms of pollution but that’s literally the only metric that they’re superior on. You have all the expense and problems of a battery pack that has a limited lifetime, plus all the complications, maintenance, failure points, and pollution of ICE. It’s all the advantages AND disadvantages of both, which considering that the advantages of one tend to be the disadvantages of the other means they cancel out and you end up with something that’s in many ways worse than either approach on its own.
Instead, the idea became full electric or bust but also that you need massive capacity to go anywhere and do forth.
That’s a VERY important step in convincing Americans to adopt electric vehicles. The biggest argument against full electric vehicles for most Americans has always been one of limited range (followed by long recharge times, and then the expense of replacing old batteries). While the vast majority of people rarely drive more than 100 miles in any given day, that’s certainly not guaranteed and there are plenty of people that either occasionally or even regularly travel 200, 300, or even farther. You’re never going to convince one of those people that they’re going to be OK owning a vehicle that can only go 100 miles on a charge, nevermind something anemic like the Leaf that could barely manage 70 even on a brand new battery. My own daily commute to and from work is just shy of 70 miles round trip (and my employer definitely does not offer charging at the office).
And SpaceX has led to a cult that hate the space shuttle (and other space planes) for the wrong reasons (and there were plenty of right ones to choose from…). And the concept of reusable rockets have most of the same issues that the shuttle did. All while poaching talent from NASA
Now this is an interesting perspective. I guess I’ve not personally seen any hate for the space shuttle, although I do know of some of the people that Musk has pulled in from his orbit that believe any government organization is inherently inferior to a private sector one (something I vehemently disagree with). Long term non-reusable rockets are just too expensive and time consuming to support a healthy and productive space based infrastructure and industry. We need reusable rockets, but even those are a stopgap. Even longer term we need to come up with some more advanced launch mechanism, perhaps shuttles launched from rail guns or something similar. It would be very cool to get space elevators working, but the materials science for something like that just doesn’t exist in any way shape or form today, so who knows if that will take decades, centuries, or even longer to develop if it’s even possible at all.
More to the point though, Space-X along with Boeing and yes even NASA has kicked off competition in the space industry we haven’t seen in decades, something that was desperately needed. NASA was always there plodding along doing science and steadily improving, but they’re a very conservative risk averse organization (although some of the things they’ve managed to pull off with essentially shoestring budgets recently are quite impressive). For an organization responsible for the lives of people that’s a very good thing, but it puts a real damper on rapid innovation. As long as they’re only risking payloads and not people we need organizations that are willing to try risky things, and for better or worse that’s not NASA.
Almost all of the “slow moving government agency” nonsense is a direct result of lobbyists associated with the private sector.
NASA stagnation is very much a function of lobbying to make private sector space travel the not option. It predated musk. He just took advantage once Russia wouldn’t sell him an icbm
As for plug-in being a half measure? They completely are. But it still would have reduced pollution and get people to understand range.
The Tesla propaganda on range being the worst part. I like the ioniq5 because it means I would recharge most of a battery on a full day of road trip. That means plugging it in while I get lunch and maybe take a piss and stretch my legs around 2 or 3. Which is not at all dissimilar from an ice. But Tesla sells big batteries and supercharger!
Day to day? Charge is irrelevant if I don’t spend the night somewhere or can charge at the office
And the other aspect people don’t understand: road trips are actually really expensive. They put significant wear on a vehicle and, if you can afford the upfront, it is almost always cheaper to rent. Weird as it is
If you shoulder past some kids on strike because you want cheap coffee, you are still a class traitor.
The automotive industry in the US is increasingly stretching it’s union muscles and Tesla is actively fighting… Basically every union in a different country. If you still buy a Tesla at this point, you at least deserve to get a bit poo pood
Most people are not keeping track of all this. They shop around for cars and find that, Tesla has one of the only competitive long range option in the mid price points.
I imagine that a lot of people that DO know what’s going on would rather still buy one and have an electric car than buy another fossil fuel one. It’s green Vs ethics… And most of their close competition seem to be the Chinese brands, so musk might actually somehow still have the ethical upper hand too…
Chinese brands will have the upper hand of being cheap as all get out. They will operate at a loss for as long as it takes for them to gain a major foothold in the American auto industry. They are already selling very well in Europe, with the UK having about half as many Chinese electrics being sold as Teslas.
I consider anyone still driving a Tesla to be a moron at this point.
A lot of people bought a lot of Tesla over the years and aren’t going to sell.
But anyone buying one? At best they are a class traitor and increasingly likely support White supremacy and transphobia
It’s really sad because prior to being acquired by Musk the company was actually doing something really interesting and disrupting an industry badly in need of a shakeup. Then muskrat comes in, ousts the founder, steals the credit, and proceeds to fuck everything up.
So far Space-X has managed to avoid Musk screwing things up, I guess actual rocket science is too technical for Musk to micromanage it to death. In a perfect world they would manage to oust him from the company completely and continue doing good work, but I guess we’ll see how it turns out. Hopefully when Musk gets tired of breaking his new toy over at Twitter he finds something else to fuck up and doesn’t head back to Space-X.
I guess I disagree with the premise that we needed the shakeup. Plug in hybrids were already a thing that multiple manufacturers were migrating to.
Instead, the idea became full electric or bust but also that you need massive capacity to go anywhere and do forth.
We’ll never truly know but I am of the opinion that all Tesla did was prevent widespread adoption of hybrids while increasing battery anxiety. And we are probably within a few years of the switch to full battery electric anyway.
And SpaceX has led to a cult that hate the space shuttle (and other space planes) for the wrong reasons (and there were plenty of right ones to choose from…). And the concept of reusable rockets have most of the same issues that the shuttle did. All while poaching talent from NASA
Hybrids have always been a terrible half step. They’re better than a non-electric in terms of pollution but that’s literally the only metric that they’re superior on. You have all the expense and problems of a battery pack that has a limited lifetime, plus all the complications, maintenance, failure points, and pollution of ICE. It’s all the advantages AND disadvantages of both, which considering that the advantages of one tend to be the disadvantages of the other means they cancel out and you end up with something that’s in many ways worse than either approach on its own.
That’s a VERY important step in convincing Americans to adopt electric vehicles. The biggest argument against full electric vehicles for most Americans has always been one of limited range (followed by long recharge times, and then the expense of replacing old batteries). While the vast majority of people rarely drive more than 100 miles in any given day, that’s certainly not guaranteed and there are plenty of people that either occasionally or even regularly travel 200, 300, or even farther. You’re never going to convince one of those people that they’re going to be OK owning a vehicle that can only go 100 miles on a charge, nevermind something anemic like the Leaf that could barely manage 70 even on a brand new battery. My own daily commute to and from work is just shy of 70 miles round trip (and my employer definitely does not offer charging at the office).
Now this is an interesting perspective. I guess I’ve not personally seen any hate for the space shuttle, although I do know of some of the people that Musk has pulled in from his orbit that believe any government organization is inherently inferior to a private sector one (something I vehemently disagree with). Long term non-reusable rockets are just too expensive and time consuming to support a healthy and productive space based infrastructure and industry. We need reusable rockets, but even those are a stopgap. Even longer term we need to come up with some more advanced launch mechanism, perhaps shuttles launched from rail guns or something similar. It would be very cool to get space elevators working, but the materials science for something like that just doesn’t exist in any way shape or form today, so who knows if that will take decades, centuries, or even longer to develop if it’s even possible at all.
More to the point though, Space-X along with Boeing and yes even NASA has kicked off competition in the space industry we haven’t seen in decades, something that was desperately needed. NASA was always there plodding along doing science and steadily improving, but they’re a very conservative risk averse organization (although some of the things they’ve managed to pull off with essentially shoestring budgets recently are quite impressive). For an organization responsible for the lives of people that’s a very good thing, but it puts a real damper on rapid innovation. As long as they’re only risking payloads and not people we need organizations that are willing to try risky things, and for better or worse that’s not NASA.
I used to do government work.
Almost all of the “slow moving government agency” nonsense is a direct result of lobbyists associated with the private sector.
NASA stagnation is very much a function of lobbying to make private sector space travel the not option. It predated musk. He just took advantage once Russia wouldn’t sell him an icbm
As for plug-in being a half measure? They completely are. But it still would have reduced pollution and get people to understand range.
The Tesla propaganda on range being the worst part. I like the ioniq5 because it means I would recharge most of a battery on a full day of road trip. That means plugging it in while I get lunch and maybe take a piss and stretch my legs around 2 or 3. Which is not at all dissimilar from an ice. But Tesla sells big batteries and supercharger!
Day to day? Charge is irrelevant if I don’t spend the night somewhere or can charge at the office
And the other aspect people don’t understand: road trips are actually really expensive. They put significant wear on a vehicle and, if you can afford the upfront, it is almost always cheaper to rent. Weird as it is
The railroads have been using hybrid locomotives for decades. I don’t think they’re as fragile as you think.
Tesla, the official car of the KKK!
There isn’t much decent choice in a lot of the price range.
If you shoulder past some kids on strike because you want cheap coffee, you are still a class traitor.
The automotive industry in the US is increasingly stretching it’s union muscles and Tesla is actively fighting… Basically every union in a different country. If you still buy a Tesla at this point, you at least deserve to get a bit poo pood
Most people are not keeping track of all this. They shop around for cars and find that, Tesla has one of the only competitive long range option in the mid price points.
I imagine that a lot of people that DO know what’s going on would rather still buy one and have an electric car than buy another fossil fuel one. It’s green Vs ethics… And most of their close competition seem to be the Chinese brands, so musk might actually somehow still have the ethical upper hand too…
Chinese brands will have the upper hand of being cheap as all get out. They will operate at a loss for as long as it takes for them to gain a major foothold in the American auto industry. They are already selling very well in Europe, with the UK having about half as many Chinese electrics being sold as Teslas.
I’m not saying that it’s good, isn’t that most people don’t know/care, they want a new car and know that electric cars are the way things are going.
Another one for the Lemmy NPC collection, thanks.