So I’m in a somewhat unfortunate situation. My circle of friends doesn’t want to switch to another messenger and we are currently stuck on the worst possible platform for security: Telegram.

The problem is that it is very hard to convince anyone to switch, if they are all perfectly fine and like Telegram. I mean I can get why they like it: The UX and UI of Telegram are amazing and there are well functioning clients available for any platform. It has more features and gimmicks than any other messenger I know BUT it lacks one mayor thing: E2EE. And that’s mostly what I care about. The second problem is that I was the person who recommended the switch to Telegram right after WhatsApp was bought by Facebook. I know, that was a bad recommendation, but back then I didn’t know shit about privacy or why E2EE mattered. I was just like “Hey, it’s not by Facebook, so it must be better”. And now everyone I know is there and won’t leave.

If - in the hypothetical situation of me setting an ultimatum and deleting my Telegram after that - I wanted to make them switch somewhere else: What messenger would that be? Currently I’m mostly thinking Signal. I know it’s not perfect either, it is centralized, and the servers are in the US, but it has a bigger user base already than most of its competitors like Threema or Matrix/Element and it is very easy to set up and use. I’m already a user of Signal, Threema, Matrix, WhatsApp and Telegram (every platform for some contacts, but most of them on Telegram sadly), so having yet another option is not a problem for me, as well as getting rid of one is also no problem. I’d love to delete both Telegram and WhatsApp in this move.

So, in conclusion, what I need is a messenger that has all or most of the following:

  • best possible security (E2EE is minimum)
  • easy to use (no complicated setup, simple UI)
  • already has some users (not too niche)
  • cross-platform and multi-device (should run on Android, iOS and Windows/Web)
  • some flashy dumb features like stickers and so on to keep them entertained

My choice would be Signal. But I am unsure if that is the best choice or if I should just wait a bit and see what all of the new EU laws about messengers and gatekeepers bring to the game and if anything chances with that.

    • ReversalHatchery@beehaw.org
      0·
      1 year ago

      fb messenger has a hidden e2ee feature that probably nobody uses, like with telegram, that’s at most feature parity, not a pro compared to telegram. But then since fb apps are closed source and heavily obfuscated, you can’t check for messenger nor whatsapp whether it actually does what it says.

      That was about trust in the available encryption and how the app handles your messages. So far I fail to see how fb messenger is better than telegram.

      But that’s not the only relevant aspect in privacy. It’s also important what else the app is doing, and whether there are alternative clients if you don’t trust the official one. This is the reason why I won’t ever accept facebook solutions being described as private options. I’d be surprised if any of facebook’s apps wouldn’t be doing everything in their power to collect every kind of information the OS provides to it, while the telegram client is not exactly fixated on harvesting everything.
      Telegram has much less tracking components in the app, but if even that amount bothers you, telegram foss from f-droid is absolutely clean. You’ll never get anywhere near with facebook services.

      And then also don’t forget that whatsapp somehow regularly has vulnerabilities that allow arbitrary code execution on your phone by an attacker. I don’t remember the last time there was such a problem with telegram, but probably is was many years ago, if it all.

        • ReversalHatchery@beehaw.org
          0·
          1 year ago

          but Signal occasionally stops publishing their source code for months at a time,

          I did not tell about Signal. Never made them a good example.
          I believe their tech is cryptographically sound, but they are doing things with their app and the service too that I don’t like, to put it that way. I want to switch from telegram, but signal is not an option to me as a primary messenger for several reasons.

          so what messengers are even left at that point.

          Simplex, Matrix, Telegram. Or there’s Molly too, but it inherits some of the problems of Signal.

          WhatsApp and Telegram are harvesting the exact same information (phone number, IP address, location, and shitty metrics like “how often did you click the new chat button this week”).

          Are you sure whatsapp does not collect anything more than that? And if so, why?

          Unlike Telegram, WhatsApp doesn’t put ads into their product.

          I haven’t seen any ads so far, and I don’t pay for telegram. Yes there are channels that I follow.

          I don’t know where this idea comes from that the WhatsApp client is somehow uploading a copy of your entire phone to Facebook,

          That is obviously not possible without root access, unless someone snoops in a rootkit for your system through a specially cradted whatsapp voice call.

          WhatsApp is better than Telegram and many other messengers because it’s using good encryption.

          Hopefully they are doing that for every message, and hopefully they refrain from analyzing screen content or typing stats for “a better advertisement experience”.
          And last but not least, hopefully they are not bundling such components that inspect the app memory contents, and neither do allow other processes to do that through them, unlike signal does. (Alternative source: drew devault’s take on the same problem (too, but it also covers more)). Oh wait, it does make use of google play services… what a pity

          Telegram releases plenty of vulnerable software but they don’t seem to get much media attention.

          I call bullshit. That article is about the telegram proxy server, which is not even official Telegram software, it is made by a dude in their free time.
          So far that is one zero software released by telegram, definitely nowhere near plenty.
          Are there that many known vulnerabilities in the clients too?
          Maybe you’re right and I just haven’t heard of them, but then please point to CVEs or something that demonstrates them. And don’t come with the issues of MtProto 1.0, that was ages ago and irrelevant today.

          Whatsapp is only more private compared to facebook’s other, less secure messenger.

          Did facebook employees just raid lemmy or what the fuck is happening in this post?