Question for the masses because I’m curious:
What do you think social media would be like if there was no anonymity?
Is it fair to say some people behave differently online because of anonymity?
Would it be good or bad if everything you posted could be tied back to you by your friends, family, employer, etc?
Some obvious concerns people express:
- personal safety
- freedom to express views contrary to community, government, etc without retaliation
- fear of stigmas related to support, education, etc for stigma topics like mental health, sexuality, etc
What reasons do you have for not wanting to own your online identity other than being able to talk trash without being identified? Some people are public and still talk a lot of trash, looking at you Twitter.
You you got doxed, what do you think the impact would be just related to social media conduct?
Edit: With the introduction of online protections for minors, how does that affect the question?
Not from a political standpoint but from a technology one, how do you see that even working?
There was a time when not revealing your identity was considered the safe way to be online, and telling strangers your name or personal info was taboo. Really, it was basic internet hygiene. The first push for real identities on social networks came mostly from advertisers, and those can go to hell.
Yes, some people abuse anonymity to be assholes with no repercussions, and obviously I am not okay with that. There should be ways to deal with those without forcing everyone to expose their identity to the whole world.
I will keep defending the right to anonymity. You only need one deranged maniac with different views on whatever, or trying to ruin your life for whatever reason to get into serious danger.
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There is one more fear which might not be discussed, that is of identity theft.
It is easy to do it offline, but it is a lot easier online.
Queer people would be denied a chance to explore their identities and find peers if they lived in an unaccepting environment. This would be particularly damaging to closeted queer kids.
Would be pretty awful for any minority group.
Queer kid in Idaho is going to have an even worse time trying to find community and such on the Internet when their identity is publicly associated with their activities. People would die. They would be murdered by conservatives.
I take your point. I might argue to swap conservatives with something like bigots. Quoting Ted Lasso: Every person is a different person
Conservative ideology is based on bigotry. Always has been. The fact the Republican party has so easily and wholeheartedly embraced white supremacists, misogynists, rapists, etc, proves the point. Indeed, the de facto leader of conservatism in the United States proudly embodies all those things and more. All the while he is the clear leader in their presidential candidate race without even having to participate in the process. It is impossible to extricate conservatism from bigotry - if you’re a conservative in the US you are a bigot either directly or through association. You know, the ol’ ten people and a Nazi having dinner is 11 Nazis having dinner.
This is difficult to argue with.
Aside from the obvious privacy issues, which are definitely the main problems here, it isn’t just users that behave differently. I’ve got several bans on Reddit that were literal bullshit, like saying a fascist Italy should be kicked out of NATO and the EU. Apparently this is “spreading hate”, worthy of a permanent ban, despite the fact that both institutions require democratic foundations for their member states. Mods and admins are just as ridiculous, be it out of malice or simply incompetency. And once you’re banned, there’s nothing you can do. You can try to appeal but those are in almost all cases denied too.
But it also goes very much against the basic principles on what the internet was founded on. If we put some heavy identifiable restrictions onto internet accessibility then that’s a very powerful tool of oppression. Maybe you trust you current government enough to handle that, right now. I personally don’t. But even then, you never know what the next one will do. Tools of oppression like this, or AI based surveillance, could strangle any sort of meaningful resistance before it even gains the slightest bit of traction. Just look at how many far right governments had been gaining votes or even got into power over the last decade. Do you really trust those people to handle such tools with the needed responsibility?
There are countries like S Korea that used to demand new users national ID at signup (not anymore thankfully) and many websites, especially at the early 2000s, had your real name featured next to your nickname (following the tradition from their own national dial-up BBS forums). The argument was that revealing your real identity would make internet interaction more “civil”.
Guess what happened. Identity theft was rampant, trolling was equally widespread, you think Facebook spearheaded mixing real name profiles and internet sewagery, you haven’t seen anything like CyWorld from early 2000s.
The cases of identity theft ranged from minors borrowing their dads and uncles ID to actual Chinese hackers dumping massive records from the same Korean companies gathering them because of that stupid law. This was done so they could… access forums that demanded a valid national ID from a 18+ years old citizen, for example.
I was there, man. You’d find out your typical forum shitposter (that had surprisingly “ample” tastes) with a profile that says “46 y.o. male (ID verified)” is revealed as an elementary school kid using their uncles ID and gets banhammer’d. Monthly.
That is super interesting. Not getting into the politics, Security Now podcast recently discussed two US child protection online related initiatives.
From a technical perspective, I imagine it being difficult to both handle age proof, guardian proofing, and dealing with lack of anonymity. Part of why I posed the question.
I think this comic sums it up well:
Certain politicians want to force everyone to dox themselves so that they can always find out exactly who is saying what.
No more whistle blowers, no more protest organizing, no more political statements that rock the boat. No more shitposting for fun, no more porn, no anything else that you might want to keep private for any reason.
Personally, sometimes I’m going to say things that are against the industry or specifically the actions of the company I work for. If my real name was shown someone could connect me to the actual business and they’d see me as some disloyal employee and not only would I not have a job, I could be blackballed by the industry because most businesses follow the same practices.
With this level of anonymity I can post my opinion about these subjects and not be calling out an individual company or connect the comment to myself in order to alienate myself from other potential employers.
It would put victims of domestic violence and other similar situations in a lot of danger. It would also paint a red x on the queer community, feminist activists, police reformists, housing rights activists, people opposed to war and genocide, so on and so forth. Meanwhile, Chase and his white supremacist buddies would continue to post their bile behind their real identities, just as they always have, and Mark and Elon would still sleep like babies.
not to forget the new most popular target: “ecoterrorists”
That it would drastically harm queer people and those questioning their identity. Social pressure, fear and shame keeps people from asking certain questions or exploring their desires when it’s potentially tied to them for life.
Look at the while concept of “queer appropriation” by celebrities. Their entire life is public and ironically while feeling themselves out and experimenting with new presentations, it’s ironically met with backlash from some queer people thinking it’s a capitalist ploy to appeal to queer fans.
Being able to just ask questions and explore is a fundamental part of understanding yourself. Anonymity is a precious gift, but one that is also easy to take granted.
Edit: Also religious folk.
That sounds horrible, for common reasons, but also because I’d basically never comment or post again.
Already, I end up deleting more than half my comments before posting, and it was more like 90% on Reddit.
I need the mask, because it means I can just close the app. I can be wrong, or say something stupid, or catch the attention of someone who will cyberstalk me… It’s enough to worry about what reaction I’ll get and if this is what I want to say
Much crime or just shitty activity that becomes possible once info is harvested. You don’t need to be a minority to get targeted by scammers, businesses, corrupt govt. And while you are open to them, they would have an incentitive to get a fake ID or something or have none at all milking you. That saves them time and money.
prohibition of anonymity means that everyone is mandated to dox themselves…That’s a bad time for everyone if they’re forced to have their real name and real location attached to literally everything they do online.
It has had shockingly few consequences so far
Yes actually…When people are anonymous online and they have an argument, it can’t go anywhere besides the online space.
If everyone is forced to dox themselves, then the violent people in online arguments know where the other person lives.
I was not making that argument that everyone should be forced to dox themselves and that online anonymity should be abolished
I was just pointing something out
Why?
Edit, location, I get that. That could be unsafe under certain circumstances, and it’s sometimes hard to protect your location privacy.
That could be unsafe under certain circumstances,
That’s unsafe in ALL circumstances. The only one who should get to decide who reveals your real location should be you and you should have full control over who you reveal it to.
Don’t vote for Nikki Haley, she wants to dox the entire world to “prevent Russians bots”
I think the 4chan hate trolling for funsies element would disappear, but I’ve seen plenty of hateful opinions posted by real people, under their real name, and next to a picture of their real face to think there’d be any real change in the world.
freedom to express views contrary to community, government, etc without retaliation
Actually…forcing everyone to dox themselves will prevent that, which is why all of the worst candidates want to do it.
Anyone who’s gay or trans, or even if they just have left wing political views…everyone who hates them will know exactly who they are and where they are.