Electric school buses are a breath of fresh air for children | Nearly $1B in federal funding could help clean up the unequal health impacts of diesel pollution.::Nearly $1B in federal funding will help decarbonize transportation and clean up some of the unequal health impacts of diesel pollution
As a child in the 80’s I remember my gag reflex kicking in every time I walked to my bus. The air was so bad that my body physically refused to let me take in a breath.
I remember the school buses in one high school I went to running on propane. It’s not as clean as electric, but it’s cleaner than diesel… and at the time, an electric school bus would have been expensive, if not outright science fiction.
There were a number of electric busses in the early 1900s. There are plenty of large electric people and material movers. They’ve been used for a hundred years now for underground mining.
Now that’s what I call “Propane Accessories”!
I expect soon I will see “diesel parties” where parents bring their kids to inhale diesel fumes from a running lifted pickup in a closed off garage.
Similar to how people I know advertised their gas stoves to everyone they know to bring their children to have an “illegal gas cooked meal” on weekends…
I could see this fit in perfectly with normal bus routes, but field trips and athletic events could be a challenge, especially for rural schools. Nothing that could not be planned around but possibly an extra cost (e.g. charter buses) or needing to keep the kids entertained while charging on the road.
I bet with the maintenance and fuel savings, the occasional charter would be cheaper over the lifetime of the bus.
If not, replace your 30 diesel fleet with 25 electric and 5 diesel. Still a big win.
Yep I bet they’ll keep a handful of diesel trucks for specific occasions and emergencies.
Hopefully in a few years they’ll have some range extender carts the bus could pull behind it.
Given the size of the bus you could fit a huge ass battery in there.
Yeah, but you don’t always need such a large battery, and that takes way from the storage area, which is important for long trips.
Why not just make normal public transit? Like school busses aren’t a thing here so I took the regular bus to school like everyone else, it’s a lot more versatile too since people can take it to more places.
Best you start walking now. School could be a mere 60 miles/96K one way from your home, (even if you live “in town” it’s still a 2 mile walk to school). Oh and the temperature outside is -35C this morning. Good luck! And yes, where I live that’s how far we need to bus students due to low population densities. And also yes, the winter time temperatures do get that low - it’s been around -15F/-26C every morning for the last 2 weeks. Toss in a nice amount of wind, and frostbite can occur in a mere handful of minutes on bare skin.
School buses also ensure all students arrive at the same time. Usually a 10 minute window. It also limits possible accidents, with young children in particular, crossing uncontrolled intersections in busy neighborhoods. Since school buses drop their passengers off at the door.
Lots of reasons to use school buses because not everyone lives within walking distance in quiet places or somewhere warm.
Schools is canceled if it’s -20C for 1-6 grade and -25C for higher grades here, I’m assuming that is also a thing in the US. And I have walked to school at -25C before only to walk back because it was closed, I think I was in 3th grade. It’s not some deadly arctic weather you make it out to be, just dress properly.
Also all of that is pretty irrelevant since I was saying you should have public transit that people can just use, including kids for getting to school, not that kids have to walk the whole way to school. Not just special busses children use twice a day.
Nope, school does NOT get closed here because it’s too cold. If it did, we would seldom have a school day. A blizzard might have school be a couple hours late, icy road conditions will get school closed. But cold? Only once were all the schools closed when the windchill hit -75C about 15 or 20 years ago. It was unprecedented and caused a lot of controversy. And yes, we know how to dress properly here - it’s below freezing 6+ months out of a year. But, while it’s a mere -26C right now, the windchill is currently -35C. It’s foolish to expect a 5 or 6 year old to wait 15 or 20 minutes in the open for a public bus or to walk a kilometer plus to school. Frostbite can happen in as little as 10 minutes to exposed skin. Dedicated school buses avoid those possibilities.
And due to the low population density, there is NO public transportation here. And we do need to bus some children 95km one way everyday. Otherwise they would need to travel well over 100km one way to the next closest school. The average bus route here is about 30-40km one way.
And if you REALLY want to save on transportation, you should keep all the children at home and just have them attend classes on-line. After all, we have the technology to do so, (and did so during covid). But be mindful of the tanking educational scores. Turns out children really suck at showing up for on-line classes…
Not everyone lives in a nice warm place like you with all the amenities you personally expect to have.
School busses don’t have adult strangers and other issues tied to them. They only go from people’s homes to school and back.
I love EVs and truly believe they’re the future. But holy shit what must these monsters weigh? And, what’s the environmental impact considering our current shitty battery tech?
I still support moving this direction because it creates the necessary infrastructure that can be leveraged by newer battery tech. And likely even with the batteries, it’s better than diesel.
But the new batteries to make them lighter and less polluting can’t come soon enough.
our current shitty battery tech
I think our battery tech is the best it’s ever been, unless you’re comparing it to sci-fi
EDIT: Why on earth are people downvoting improving battery technology? LMFAO, sometimes this place is batshit crazy.
There’s research into many different formulations that don’t use nearly as much (or in some cases any) toxic materials, solid-state batteries, etc.
Are you taking the critique personally? If so, that’s a misunderstanding. It’s not an attack on you.
It’s simply a fact there’s a LONG way to go on battery tech, and anything we can do to increase power density while decreasing weight is critical to making them more environmentally friendly and sustainable.
The current environmental impact is none if you compare it to literally shipping oil from the middle east every day just to burn it.
You love EVs yet are parroting oil barons talking point. I’m skeptical.
I still support moving this direction because it creates the necessary infrastructure that can be leveraged by newer battery tech. And likely even with the batteries, it’s better than diesel.
I don’t know how to help you read.
You sound like a demagog who feels attacked when faced with facts or genuine issues. Advocating for improvements to the technology isn’t being anti-EV or even anti-battery. LOL. #faceplam&sigh
“Black propaganda is a form of propaganda intended to create the impression that it was created by those it is supposed to discredit”
When a fact looks like propaganda to you, then you need to recognize the red flag and seek self improvement.
Batteries are over 90% recyclable. They’re actually pretty environmentally friendly after the first round.
But theyre not recycled much–YET.
Agree and excitedly look forward to growth in that market (or even having a market for it). They will eventually become a profitable recycling opportunity. Unless one of the other battery techs (tons of them) in development just completely supplanted them. Either way the impact should diminish over time. Main questions are how fast and long will they continue to be an environmental negative.
Rechargeable nickel–cadmium (Ni-Cd), nickel metal hydride (Ni-MH), lithium-ion (Li-ion) and nickel–zinc (Ni-Zn), can also be recycled. Disposable alkaline batteries make up the vast majority of consumer battery use, but there is currently no cost-neutral recycling option.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_recycling
EDIT: You can read further down how close some of these companies are to an actual recycling center. They’re getting there!
How is this gonna work when electric cars won’t even run in icy weather
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Electric cars run just fine in icy weather
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Heatpumps, which work a lot better for larger buses than smaller buses.
Bus routes are generally short, fixed, and planned. They are literally the perfect place for an EV.
You can generate a lot of heat with fuel-based heaters. Many buses already use these.
Makes sense to have an aux fuel heat source for EV buses that may deal with cold climate a few weeks out of the year.
Buses will have fairly large batteries (Bird does 150kWh). The percentage of the battery needed for heat goes down as size goes up because the interior size is relatively negligible in how much added heating capacity is needed to keep the bus warm.
But yes, probably wouldn’t be too crazy to throw on a propane heater in especially cold climates.
AAA says that EV batteries tend to lose power faster in cold weather, getting as little as 50-60% of their advertised range.
“Charging stations around the city are over capacity… Once their car is finally plugged in, it takes longer than usual to power up. “…They tell you it’s fast, but then it takes two hours to charge your car,” Marcus Campbell tells NBC Chicago.”
https://www.pcmag.com/news/dont-buy-a-tesla-chicagos-ev-drivers-struggle-with-sub-zero-temperatures
This weather is a worst case scenario and I doubt schools would be open anyway but sounds like EVs are having a tough time.
AAA says that EV batteries tend to lose power faster in cold weather, getting as little as 50-60% of their advertised range.
Right, and the EVs that lose that much range are the ones with the smallest battery packs. The heating requirement as a percentage of the battery pack goes down as the battery gets larger. It takes roughly the same amount of energy to keep a 40kWh battery warm as it does to keep a 150kWh battery warm.
The same logic doesn’t directly translate for a car as a bus.
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“How is this gonna work when I have no fucking clue what I’m talking about”
Yeah. About that. Go read a bit about electric cars instead of scare headlines in the news. Hell try one for yourself, you might like it.
Look at this guy, who has never had to start a diesel engine when it’s -20°F outside.
Most schools don’t open when is icy or extremely cold out. So your point is useless.
I grew up and rode the bus to school in Iowa. There were multiple days in my youth that local schools were closed because the diesel busses wouldn’t turn over. The guy that maintained ours used Amsoil, so our buses worked, but cold weather doesn’t only hurt electric vehicles.
There were reports over this past week over people having difficulties charging their electric vehicles due to the cold temps (-30°F wind chill and worse). All of the schools in the state were closed as well as many businesses.
Basically, it’s a self correcting issue. If it’s too cold to charge a battery, it’s too cold to have school.
A combination of heaters and being mostly deployed in warmer environments, I’d assume.
