Yes, I made it using a laptop’s trackpad, how could you tell?

[Image description: Panel 1: Young man confidently walking, his vest bears the Wayland logo. Behind him is a grunt with the Gnome logo on his face holding a katana. The young man says: “It’s high time you retire, old man!” Panel 2: An old man with a long beard and the Xorg logo on his chest is sitting on a throne and petting a rat, the XFCE mascot. He says: “It’s still a hundred years too early for you to defeat me!” ]

  • KISSmyOS@feddit.de
    5·
    6 months ago

    Today, X is like the horse and buggy proponents, claiming the car isn’t feasible cause you can’t get gasoline in every town.

  • Pasta Dental@sh.itjust.works
    3·
    6 months ago

    Wayland gets so many more of the basics so much better than X11 it’s not even funny anymore. X11 is stuttery, unsecure, unmaintaned, can’t really be updated for new features that are pretty important in 2024 (VRR, HDR). For now with my usage, the only big disadvantage I saw from Wayland is that you can’t restart it like X11 when something goes wrong, but that’s the thing, I haven’t had to restart it like I had to often with X11. Even on Nvidia Wayland is better now, except maybe for gaming but that’s Nvidia for you.

    • Rustmilian@lemmy.worldEnglish
      21·
      6 months ago

      You absolutely can restart Wayland. The command to do so is just specific to whichever DE or WM you’re using as they have their own Wayland Compositor implementation.

      • Pantherina@feddit.de
        1·
        6 months ago

        DEs should implement good commands for that

        • start session from tty (example startplasma-wayland)
        • logout (example qdbus org.kde.ksmserver /KSMServer logout 0 3 3)
        • restart wayland server (example kwin_wayland --replace)

        Some of those are completely undiscoverable

    • Aganim@lemmy.world
      12·
      6 months ago

      X11 is stuttery

      Not for me

      unsecure

      Source?

      unmaintaned

      Received a number of commits just last week: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg

      can’t really be updated for new features that are pretty important in 2024 (VRR, HDR).

      VRR is supported, at least on AMD: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Variable_refresh_rate

      For HDR you have a point, afaik.

      Wayland gets so many more of the basics so much better than X11 it’s not even funny anymore.

      And yet X11 works rock solid for me, while Wayland still crashes whenever I so much as look at it wrong. The amount of time and work I’ve lost because of Wayland crapping out on me isn’t even funny anymore. On AMD by the way, so no blaming Nvidia’s crappy Linux support.

      Wayland will probably be the better product one day, but this day is not that day, at least not for every use-case. Great that it works fantastically for you, I genuinely advise you to keep using it, but keep in mind that ‘mileage may vary’ from person to person. Personally for now I’ll stick to X11, as I need to get work done and unfortunately don’t have time to muck around with Wayland’s antics.

      • Pantherina@feddit.de
        5·
        6 months ago

        X11 is insecure. Any program can read any keystroke, any windows contents, can input anything anywhere etc.

        The concept of separate apps basically doesnt exist.

      • Rustmilian@lemmy.worldEnglish
        61·
        6 months ago

        Not for me

        Source?

        The Xorg devs have literally stated as much themselves.

        Received a number of commits just last week: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg

        The vast majority of those commits are literally because of Xwayland.

        VRR is supported, at least on AMD: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Variable_refresh_rate

        Barely, it has numerous issues. The Wayland VRR implementations address much of those issues.

        For HDR you have a point, afaik.

        HDR literally can’t be added to Xorg without rewriting the entire stack. They’ve been trying to get HDR working for something like around 10yrs before they gave up completely.
        Wayland on the other hand has been designed from the ground up to be completely expandable, directly addressing the largest problem with Xorg, maintainability.

        …at least not for every use-case… …‘mileage may vary’ from person to person…

        Yes, that’s true. What would reduce edge cases however, is if you reported those bugs.

        Wayland will probably be the better product one day…

        That day is coming sooner then later.

        Personally for now I’ll stick to X11…

        That’s fine, however you should switch as soon as it becomes viable to do so.

  • MeanEYE@lemmy.world
    2·
    6 months ago

    Except X.org should be frail and have tubes running out of every orifice on their body. They are on life support and receiving updates only related to Xwayland.

    • nxdefiant@startrek.website
      11·
      6 months ago

      No.

      System D was/Is a philosophical debate.

      Wayland vs X is a mortal attempting to summit Mt. Everest naked. Everyone is cheering Wayland on, no one believes it’ll succeed.

      Even the X people are like “Honestly it’d be a relief if you pulled this off, we’re so tired, please end us”

      • Cris@lemmy.worldEnglish
        4·
        6 months ago

        No one thinks it’ll succeed? Obviously you and I exist in very different parts of the linux sphere, cause I’m pretty sure X11 is all but dead as a project and its kinda just a question of how long it takes for Wayland to be feature complete enough to reach a critical mass of adoption. And its kinda feeling like we’re currently on the cusp of being there with the major DEs moving towards discontinuing X11 support 😅

        • azertyfun@sh.itjust.works
          2·
          6 months ago

          This software has been in development for a long time and still doesn’t work for my niche usecase and this therefore UNUSABLE and DOOMED TO FAIL

          • Actual Linux users, completely oblivious to the irony of that sentence
          • acockworkorange@mander.xyz
            1·
            6 months ago

            That’s a weird take. You have a software that you use and suits your needs. It’s showing its age, but still tricks along. Then there’s this other software that’s gaining spotlight, but it does not suit all your needs. You point out the regression. Some rando makes fun of your valid point.

            • azertyfun@sh.itjust.works
              0·
              6 months ago

              I agree with what you’re saying, but you’re shifting the goalpost.

              Everyone is cheering Wayland on, no one believes it’ll succeed

              That parent comment (and other comments like it in these threads) are what I take issue with. You can make the exact same argument why people should stick with Windows and not bother with Linux.

              • acockworkorange@mander.xyz
                1·
                6 months ago

                But… You didn’t take issue with that. You ridicularized a completely different statement, one that was valid even. You pulled a reverse strawman on yourself. If you’d made a counterpoint to original post, I’d have agreed with you.

        • nxdefiant@startrek.website
          1·
          6 months ago

          X is 36 years old. Wayland is 15. Wayland was not the first attempt at unseating that throne and for the sake of all our sanity, I hope it’s the last. I don’t want Wayland to win because it’s better, I want Wayland to win because I’m tired of trying to use it and having to go back to X because it broke something.

      • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee
        1·
        6 months ago

        Everyone is cheering Wayland on, no one believes it’ll succeed.

        Uhhmm. I think by now most see it inevitable with distros and DEs switching on increasing pace

  • illegal.argument@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1·
    5 months ago

    i like x because it runs well on my legacy hardware

    but i’m also rooting for progress, so i’m also glad xfce is adding wayland support