Linux is just as complicated as windows. Windows just has layers of abstraction that give the illusion of simplicity. The problem is the process of abstraction adds complexity and removes control.
If you need the change any of the lower levels you half to think about how it effects the abstractions and the software built on top of that.
The fact that you can connect literally any device in the world to a windows machine and it just automagically works in a few seconds is something people don’t appreciate enough. Im sure microsoft put a lot of effort into that, and constantly is.
Let me plug this web cam to my linux daily driver. Oh wait, I need to check exactly what chip its running and if that specific version is supported on my specific distro and specific version. And then I find out yes it is supported but its still missing auto exposure compensation for some reason. And of course I have to install it first and all its dependencies from that specific repo im using.
how long ago have you used linux actually? And what distro you used, it had no webcam drivers? CollibriOS? The only time i had to install a driver, it was a graphic tablet one. You know, what did it take to do it?
“yay -S opentabletdriver” to install it
“systemctl --user enable opentabletdriver.service --now” to immediately enable it, and make it run at startup.
It took more to install a proprietary one on windows.
yeah, except that you have to find the official site, find there the model of your tablet, go on its page, finally download the driver. Only after that i can doubleclick on the installer and click yes half a dozen times. Also, no automation at all. I could write a fucking script that completely transforms any linux into my own one with all the programs and environment i like. There’s even an OS that functions that way: in nixOS everything done through single config file.
No dumb extra clicks. Also, no obscure “install opera” checkmarks or some similar shit, and noone treats you like you’re mentally deranged. Frankly, it felt so refreshig for me. Like i’ve finally breathed in some fresh air after decades of pure CO2
Using the official site is a benefit, not a downside imo. Package managers aren’t any more convenient when you still have to spend a ton of time googling for the correct thing, then trying to find the correct commands to install it, then installing it the wrong way because your distro actually uses this other package manager.
then trying to find the correct commands to install it, then installing it the wrong way because your distro actually uses this other package manager
this single quote gives me understanding that you don’t know what you’re talking about. You literally making the shit up right now. If your system uses other package manager, the command simply won’t run.
what’s about googling stuff, there are literally wikis for every major distribution, and they’re more than enough to install drivers (which this topic is all about) to any of their derivatives. I agree that having an ability to use official site is good, but this option is still as available if you’re on linux. Its just so that it is not an option on windows, it is the only way, and it’s annoying. Making a clean install? Be a dear, make sure to speedrun all this clownade with installing your proprietary drivers and software, don’t forget to also draw a pentagram and provide some virgin blood in order to disable windows defender, annoying af automatic updates and realtime protection. Thank you Microsoft, I’m not stupid, i’ll manage myself to not to download that sus af software, you don’t have to use half of my pc resources just to regularily scan the file system on potential viruses.
In previous paragraph i have mentioned updates. Yeah, you either won’t get any, or they’re annoying af, and i’m not even talking about famous windows system ones (yeah, java?)
“sudo pacman -Syu” is the only command i have to run now to update literally everything all at once without it taking half an hour or a necessary reboot. You don’t even have to stop what you were doing, as noone cockblocks you with a fucking loading screen.
That’s ignoring the whole market share problem. Drivers aren’t always written for Linux but there are always drivers written for Windows. If they use the standards in place for generic cameras, microphones, mass storage, networking, etc.
Most USB devices fall under the USB communication device classes and the rest are made by companies that force you to use bloated software or don’t fit in this standards spec. It’s the companies fault for neglecting Linux not the other way around.
There’s also the ability to extend a standard class but it often has to be treated as a separate device.
microsoft put a lot of effort into that, and constantly is.
Microsoft puts a lot of effort into making sure theirs is the first OS a student looks at and that most devices come with Windows for as many people as possible.
The rest is just a consequence of other companies deciding where to put their money.
e.g. I once got a Panasonic tablet (x86_64) with Win10, Installed Ubuntu on it and compared the touch screen usage.
Realised that the touchscreen OEM had a special driver for Windows, along with more features (including pointy object input, like the included pen) for 0 extra cost to Microsoft, while for Linux, there was only this generic driver (which is most probably maintained by some OSS dev) which had a similar functionality to the BIOS driver.
Linux hasn’t been a daily driver for me in a long time, but there have definitely been times where, after researching a question about how to do a thing in Linux, I ended up saying “you know what I’m just not gonna do that thing.”
I’ve found them pretty easy tbh. I’ve admined everything between 2003-2019 professionally and I have a handful of 2022 machines in my home lab. Stick with R2 releases and it’s p stable. Usually when something goes wrong it just needs a good kick, not major surgery.
As a linux user and developer and someone who works with linux servers all day for 20 years.
Yes linux is complicated.
Linux is just as complicated as windows. Windows just has layers of abstraction that give the illusion of simplicity. The problem is the process of abstraction adds complexity and removes control.
If you need the change any of the lower levels you half to think about how it effects the abstractions and the software built on top of that.
The fact that you can connect literally any device in the world to a windows machine and it just automagically works in a few seconds is something people don’t appreciate enough. Im sure microsoft put a lot of effort into that, and constantly is.
Let me plug this web cam to my linux daily driver. Oh wait, I need to check exactly what chip its running and if that specific version is supported on my specific distro and specific version. And then I find out yes it is supported but its still missing auto exposure compensation for some reason. And of course I have to install it first and all its dependencies from that specific repo im using.
Easy.
I’ve had the exact opposite thing happen with printers. Linux detects and connects to my networked Brother laser without a fuss.
Also, same with some surplus server equipment, like 10G SFP+ NICs. That end of the market makes things for Linux first and Windows second.
cupsftw.Most printer companies probably implement it for Apple support though.
how long ago have you used linux actually? And what distro you used, it had no webcam drivers? CollibriOS? The only time i had to install a driver, it was a graphic tablet one. You know, what did it take to do it? “yay -S opentabletdriver” to install it “systemctl --user enable opentabletdriver.service --now” to immediately enable it, and make it run at startup. It took more to install a proprietary one on windows.
What did it take? For most windows users it takes double clicking an installer and clicking yes half a dozen times
yeah, except that you have to find the official site, find there the model of your tablet, go on its page, finally download the driver. Only after that i can doubleclick on the installer and click yes half a dozen times. Also, no automation at all. I could write a fucking script that completely transforms any linux into my own one with all the programs and environment i like. There’s even an OS that functions that way: in nixOS everything done through single config file.
No dumb extra clicks. Also, no obscure “install opera” checkmarks or some similar shit, and noone treats you like you’re mentally deranged. Frankly, it felt so refreshig for me. Like i’ve finally breathed in some fresh air after decades of pure CO2
Using the official site is a benefit, not a downside imo. Package managers aren’t any more convenient when you still have to spend a ton of time googling for the correct thing, then trying to find the correct commands to install it, then installing it the wrong way because your distro actually uses this other package manager.
Installers are better imo
lol.
this single quote gives me understanding that you don’t know what you’re talking about. You literally making the shit up right now. If your system uses other package manager, the command simply won’t run.
what’s about googling stuff, there are literally wikis for every major distribution, and they’re more than enough to install drivers (which this topic is all about) to any of their derivatives. I agree that having an ability to use official site is good, but this option is still as available if you’re on linux. Its just so that it is not an option on windows, it is the only way, and it’s annoying. Making a clean install? Be a dear, make sure to speedrun all this clownade with installing your proprietary drivers and software, don’t forget to also draw a pentagram and provide some virgin blood in order to disable windows defender, annoying af automatic updates and realtime protection. Thank you Microsoft, I’m not stupid, i’ll manage myself to not to download that sus af software, you don’t have to use half of my pc resources just to regularily scan the file system on potential viruses.
In previous paragraph i have mentioned updates. Yeah, you either won’t get any, or they’re annoying af, and i’m not even talking about famous windows system ones (yeah, java?)
“sudo pacman -Syu” is the only command i have to run now to update literally everything all at once without it taking half an hour or a necessary reboot. You don’t even have to stop what you were doing, as noone cockblocks you with a fucking loading screen.
That’s ignoring the whole market share problem. Drivers aren’t always written for Linux but there are always drivers written for Windows. If they use the standards in place for generic cameras, microphones, mass storage, networking, etc.
Most USB devices fall under the USB communication device classes and the rest are made by companies that force you to use bloated software or don’t fit in this standards spec. It’s the companies fault for neglecting Linux not the other way around.
There’s also the ability to extend a standard class but it often has to be treated as a separate device.
Did you mean you were daily driving linux 20 years ago?
Also “it just automatically works” because the devices manufacturers optimized it with focus on windows, not Microsoft lmao.
Microsoft puts a lot of effort into making sure theirs is the first OS a student looks at and that most devices come with Windows for as many people as possible. The rest is just a consequence of other companies deciding where to put their money.
e.g. I once got a Panasonic tablet (x86_64) with Win10, Installed Ubuntu on it and compared the touch screen usage. Realised that the touchscreen OEM had a special driver for Windows, along with more features (including pointy object input, like the included pen) for 0 extra cost to Microsoft, while for Linux, there was only this generic driver (which is most probably maintained by some OSS dev) which had a similar functionality to the BIOS driver.
Linux hasn’t been a daily driver for me in a long time, but there have definitely been times where, after researching a question about how to do a thing in Linux, I ended up saying “you know what I’m just not gonna do that thing.”
Try to work with Windows servers 😰. I still have nightmares.
I’ve found them pretty easy tbh. I’ve admined everything between 2003-2019 professionally and I have a handful of 2022 machines in my home lab. Stick with R2 releases and it’s p stable. Usually when something goes wrong it just needs a good kick, not major surgery.