Glad to see I’m not the only one saying that.
I don’t know why you keep harping on that point. Yes the XMPP iOS client situation isn’t ideal, but on all other platforms XMPP clients are significantly better than Matrix clients and outside of the US and Japan, hardly anyone uses iOS. Besides the fact that Apple is extremely hostile to open-source developers.
At this point I almost think not supporting crappy Apple products is a feature 🤷
hardly anyone uses iOS.
I keep harping on this point because you are doing wishful thinking. The numbers for iOS usage in Western Europe are around 32%. That’s far from “hardly anyone”. In the UK is over 50%, in Australia it’s over 60%.
If you care about keeping in contact with friends and family, you’ll be bound to find someone on iOS. What are you going to do, tell them to get a new phone just so they can participate in the family group chat?
At this point I almost think not supporting crappy Apple products is a feature.
Yeah, those grapes really are sour…
Mostly company phones in Europe and I suspect elsewhere too. Private use is very rare, and mostly old hand down phones from someone that got one from a company. And besides… nice cherry picking of numbers with “western” Europe only…
And no, I would tell them to install Monal. It works fine for normal messaging. But I never had the problem, because I know almost no one that uses iOS privately 🤷
Mostly company phones in Europe
Does it matter? It’s not like people everyone carries two phones around.
and I suspect elsewhere too.
Wishful thinking, again.
nice cherry picking of numbers with “western” Europe only…
The point is that there is a non-negligible number of people using iOS everywhere. In Brazil, it’s 17%, In China, it’s ~20%. In Russia, 30%. Saying that “no one uses it outside of the US and Japan” is absurd.
I would tell them to install Monal. It works fine for normal messaging.
If you “know almost no one that uses iOS privately”, you are probably surrounded by people who think that “emoji support” and “reactions” are not important. Try stepping out of this bubble and see how far your can go with Monal. People expect a lot more than “normal messaging”.
And no, I’m not saying this out of hate or because I prefer Matrix. I wish XMPP could be a viable alternative, just like I wish less people were locked on iOS. But no amount of wishing will change the reality. If XMPP enthusiasts really want to make it succeed then unfortunately they need to be ready for an uphill battle and be willing to spend resources to get a compelling alternative working on a hostile platform.
Most companies prohibit the installation of non-company approved apps, so yes you need to carry two phones.
I am not going to lose sleep over XMPP having less than ideal support on a platform that is hardly used by the realistic target group of XMPP. And reactions and emojis work fine on Android and other platforms 🤷 Afaik emoji reactions are also going to be supported by Monal soon, but then there will be for sure some other thing you come up with why XMPP can’t ever work 🤦
Plus, I think you have a totally false problem analysis if you think the less than ideal iOS support it the thing why XMPP isn’t as popular as Signal for example.
I think you have a totally false problem analysis if you think the less than ideal iOS support it the thing why XMPP isn’t as popular as Signal for example.
I never said it was the thing, and you are creating a strawman by implying that I’m expecting it be “as popular as Signal”.
What I am saying, plain and simple, is “XMPP might be technically superior in every possible aspect, but this means absolutely jack shit if most if not all of my circles have at 10/20/30% people who will not use it because the client is so feature poor.”
Just another data point: I am a millenial and none of my non-tech friends care about reactions; my parents and other relatives of their generation have no idea about how to use them, even in WhatsApp (which in my country has a near-monopoly on instant messaging). The only category of people I know IRL who care about the “outdated look” of XMPP clients is made of my “I think I know a lot about computers because I’m a gamer and I use SuperOptimisator 3000 to get 500 FPS in my games” friends. 🤷
Your experience is different, fine. Matrix has other strenghts, fine. But I don’t understand the need for matrix users to come shit on every remotely popular XMPP online post everywhere, with what’s basically FUD. In another comment, you said there is neither “emoji” or “reaction” support on iOS. WTF. While reactions are not (yet) implemented in Siskin or Monal, there is absolutely nothing preventing you from sending and receiving emojis in those iOS clients. Some people enjoy DeltaChat. I don’t see them coming and shitting on every popular XMPP or Matrix post. Why is this like this with Matrix?
FWIW, I would be happy if everyone moved to Matrix instead of the privacy nightmare of walled gardens that are the de facto norm. I’ve started hosting my XMPP server on the cheapest VPS I could find about 10 years ago, and I have been happy with it. My parents use it. I am probably not going to retire that VPS anytime soon.
I run OpenFire (https://www.igniterealtime.org/projects/openfire/) as my server. Upgrades are easy, and I like the 2000-era interface as it doesn’t take up much room, but if I was starting from scratch again, maybe I would try a different server, as the way it deals with Lets Encrypt certs is a bit annoying when it’s time to renew - this could be user error, but it’s not obvious.
ejabberd having it’s built-in “certbot” equivalent sounds great!
I use Monocles (Android) and Dino (Linux) clients, and it’s pretty stable. Monocles also allows some server commands from the client, which is pretty cool. Sorting out TURN was a faff, but it doesn’t help that my server is behind 1:1 NAT I guess :/
Still, now that is sorted, it’s great :) I just need to find out a way of enticing my friends to use this instead of WhatsApp etc <sigh>
