- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- technology@lemmy.world
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I’m waiting for a phone to meet Graphene’s requirements that isn’t made by Google. Then I’ll switch. Hope it happens sooner rather than later.
I initially considered that, but in the end I just bit the bullet and got one 2 weeks ago.
My thought is with the current trend of PC hardware prices, I didn’t want to wait to see how it affects phone prices.
At the same time, I do not know if the collaborative phone between GOS and the manufacturer will be something I like. The current Pixel 10 phone is already bigger than what I ultimately prefer and I think it’s more probable the new phone will be phablet sized.
And this is something I’ve been thinking about too. While I dislike the idea of giving money to Google, it might be something I have to just make my peace with as a one time purchase for the next few years (I’m not the kind of user that has to have the newest device when it comes out). I dislike phablets too, so I always try to avoid them. I also didn’t consider PC hardware issues like ram availability and such affecting the prices of phones until now, so good of you to bring it up. I’ll think about it.
I’m looking into getting a Jolla, though I’m sure the security probably doesn’t match up to GrapheneOS. They seem more privacy oriented and these days I’d like to contribute to the existence of European alternatives.
I’m using Graphene for around a 6 months now on a Pixel 9, with F-Droid being the primary app source. I quite like it.
have you needed to use microG for any apps? is it a sufficient replacement for google play?
MicroG isn’t necessary with Grapheneos’s sandboxed Google Play.
Well, I installed Play Store and Services from the Graphene App Store. Unfortunately my banking app must be installed from Play and needs services, but that’s really the only reason.
GOS is great. Funny, I used to rom hop and distro hop a lot; but on GOS, I installed it once and so far so good (5+ months in).
Just some tips for new users: Just install it and dont be afraid to try things out (Google Store, profiles, Aurora…etc). Oh and dont make it tooooo complicate with many profiles and private space. You can test first but dont over do it if you’re not experienced.
And no, I am not a dev from GOS lol. I’m an ordinary user who wants to take control of my phone.
I got a new (to me) pixel a bit ago and haven’t switched back cause life has been crazy. I miss GOS. Maybe this weekend I’ll have a minute to do that.
Break free from Google! By buying a Google phone…
That’s precisely my biggest problem with GrapheneOS
Just use IodeOS, CalyxOS, /e/OS or just LineageOS to break free. Those are available for a many devices. Not only Pixel.
The level of security, of privacy and of granular control of those does not come even close to what GrapheneOS brings to the table. Additionally Iodè and /e/OS have some noise going on with not being private at all. And all of them, except LineageOS (some times) have long delays with security patches.
/e/OS uses OpenAI for voice-to-text. Iodé has closed source components (trust me bro?). What do they claim? “some protection is better than none”. In security that is ridiculous.
Then there is choosing between Microg vs actual sandboxed Google Play Services (which you don’t need to have at all on GrapheneOS if you don’t want to).
/e/OS signs their OS with Google test keys instead of their own keys.
Unconfirmed, but concerning is the claims of ties of those 2 (Iodé and /e/OS) with the French government, not unlike Chinese companies with the CCP.
Choosing LineageOS, or even CalyxOS are options I would consider if I wasn’t willing or able to get a Pixel device, but Iodé and /e/OS are absolute ‘no’ in my book. Too many holes, too pragmatic (and I’m trying to be nice using that word) for my taste.
the security not close, but its already a big leap from stock rom, and most likely dont need to waste money on a pixel.
GOS is all about security. Priority of IodeOS or CalyxOS is privacy. All the “noise going on” you are talking means nothing without any evidence. LineageOS and IodesOS are releasing every month the security patches for the official supported devices. There are no meaningful delays. Closed source is not bad per se. GOS allows Play Services. MicroG is optional on IodeOS, LineageOS or CalyxOS. You don’t have to use or to install it. /e/OS is the worst of all of them. But still better than Vanilla Android. Claims doesn’t matter only real evidences. And there are non.
Non of these ROMs are perfect. You have to pick the one who fits your needs best. For some its GOS for others it’s IodeOS.
‘not significant’, right.
This table is old. Patches are coming within days after release. I know that, because I have two phones to test all those roms. On IodeOS I got the first beta some days ago for the next march update. They are not slow. They are as secure as vanilla Android from Google. GOS is the paranoid on. Perfect for paranoid people like the developers themself. Only exception is /e/OS. It still is very slow to releas patches or even new Android version.
I’m pretty paranoid myself, so your logic checks out.
Another reply did the thinking emoji face at biometrics and that’s good. Here’s why it’s worthwhile to never enable biometrics:
You don’t know when you’re going to be compelled to use them and you don’t drill on turning them off.
The whole point of no knock and other police tactics is to prevent you from keeping them from getting what they want. You can’t expect yourself to just never be surprised, that’s ridiculous. Turn biometrics off so getting surprised by the cops doesn’t immediately give them the keys to the castle!
No one drills enough, but let’s say you’re the one person who does drill enough on turning off biometrics: wouldn’t that practice time be better spent with biometrics off, drilling on shutting your phone down so they have to deal with its much more secure Before First Unlock state instead?
Turn off biometrics and practice turning your phone off.
I wonder is this something to actually worry about outside of the US?
In my country police are known to torture people until they sign a confession written by them. So I don’t think disabling biometrics will make a difference. But I’ve still done it.
nobody should discount hardware-level hacks either. ultimately GOS is the only way to get decent software on mobile without leaving it exposed in the event of petty theft. people implying it will be a serious roadblock to imperialist state-level actors are naive or even suspicious to me
Yes it absolutely is.
Every nation has a byzantine system of laws and codes enumerating different ways for police to violate the “rights” that nation has enshrined in law.
One way to avoid compelled speech (a “right” Americans have but other nations citizens might not) is to simply misremember your lock code as many times as it takes to trigger factory reset.
Americans don’t need to know that because they can’t be compelled to enter a passkey, but people in countries with no qualms about compelled speech like Germany would be well served by disabling biometrics so they have the option of lying and taking that hit instead of giving up their privacy.
Do your own research about your jurisdiction, but go ahead and turn off biometrics because it literally makes any group that can control your movement (which in English common law is the basis for the concept of “arrest”, and so likely a situation many different nationalities will face) access to your devices.
I ran various custom ROM’s for years on a FairPhone3+. It was great right up until the day all my banking apps stopped working. Banking app incompatibility is NOT the fault of GrapheneOS (or any other custom ROM) dev’s at all . . . but IMO this is the real problem today with any alternative mobile OS. Privacy vs. banking convenience. And yes, YMMV as some of them do work . . and mine did as well . . right up until the day they didn’t.
Just use a web browser.
People act like they can’t live without these apps, which are often just a repackaged website anyway.
Nice idea in theory . . . but here in the UK, increasingly customers are being left with little other choice. Between banking apps using push messages to verify credit/debit card transactions, closing of physical branches and requiring authentication via the app to log into the website . . . not using their app is becoming more and more difficult every day.
My bank requires using a card reader for ID if you use a web browser. It can be done but it means carrying three physical things (phone, bank card, bank card reader) instead of one (phone).
So it is a minor inconvenience?
Also it would be an option to switch banks.
My point is that there is an actual difference. It’s not just a repackaged web app, and has actual drawbacks.
My personal plan is to move as much of my day to day stuff to a Mecha Comet, and also carry my Fairphone running Android for whatever proprietary crap that the world wants me to run. It’s two devices, but hopefully will minimize exposure to big tech.
pushTAN?
Do banking exclusively through the online portals? For me, if that means using my desktop or a laptop for banking, that’s what I do, because I will not install a banking app on my phone.
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Switch banks. That’s what I did. I had a bank that required an app to use them as well before I decided that I cared about my privacy and wanted more of it. And when I found out that my bank wouldn’t let me do things, I switched banks. Because fuck them.
Generally it’s neobanks that cause the most problems. If you’re using older banks that have been around for quite a long time, they don’t have nearly the technology, so are less likely to have this occur. In the United States, an example of this might be something like Wells Fargo or Discover or something like that, whereas one of these neobanks that would cause problems would be like chime.
Generally, stay away from thin tech and stay with actual banks. You might also look at credit unions. My local credit union is really good, and has a good online website, and has an app as well, but doesn’t require it at all.
I use several banks and several credit unions, and the only thing I can’t do with a laptop is deposit checks (which is getting pretty rare).
FinTech products like PayPal, Venmo, Cash.app, BlueBird and such often require a phone app, but aren’t regulated banks, and are best avoided when possible.
Same here, I might end up with a check in my hands like once per year, and so I have to make like one single trip to my credit union every single year or whatever to deposit that check, and that’s it.
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my condolences are you euro?
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I didn’t know they rolled like that, good to know for the purposes of learning about banking & surveillance systems. haven’t seen it mentioned on GOS forums
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Nice idea in theory . . . but here in the UK, increasingly customers are being left with little other choice. Between banking apps using push messages to verify credit/debit card transactions, closing of physical branches and requiring authentication via the app to log into the website . . . not using their app is becoming more and more difficult every day.
What services do they have for senior citizens? Because they are the most likely ones to not want to use technology. You can probably piggyback on what they use.
They are offering free classes for seniors to teach them how to use the apps.
Okay, in that case, I would just buy a very cheap second device and have your primary one using a privacy system such as graphene and then use a secondary one that you never turn on except for doing that kind of stuff.
That way, at least your primary system is isolated from the rootkit that is things like Google Play Services.
Exactly! I’d love to switch, but I rely on my banking apps too much. That’s a dealbreaker for me as well.
I bought the 10 pro fold when it came out and flashed it to grapheneos right out of the box.
Still using Windows 10 Mobile.
GrapheneOS is just great. 2 weeks into it and it works soo good.
I am probably gonna go with either graphene or a Linux phone next because of google doing their stupid shit as always
I may try and get a cheap phone to put some alt android ROMs on and test or maybe a Linux os but some of my favorite apps are android exclusive so I am probably gonna stick with a modded android system Either lineage, /e or graphene
I’d likely make the jump if they supported Google pay. But they don’t, so iPhone it is now
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There’s also the risk that credit card companies are claiming that fraud done using your phone app (for example, someone stole your unlocked phone(*)) is not covered, and you are on the hook for losses.But stolen physical credit cards are always covered.
(*)EDIT: I thought I’d read a report that someone who had been mugged and forced to give their phone+PIN had an issue with their CC company; but it looks like this is mostly a problem with money transferred out of a bank account, not credit card purchases… and even then, hiring a lawyer will usually get the bank to pay-up.
Credit card companies can claim whatever they want, that’s not how their agreement works. They need to cover. But also the risk of someone stealing my unlocked phone is so exponentially lower than the risk of someone stealing my cards that I’m not even remotely concerned.
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sorry, I think I was confusing bank transfers with credit card transactions.
I don’t remember the last time I brought my cards with me. Needs to be on my phone.
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“Needs to” may be a bit strong for you, but for me it’s legit. I will NOT switch to an OS without Google Pay, Apple Pay, or Samsung Pay.
If my phone is dead, broken, or stolen, I use my watch.
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That’s great, I still need primary on the phone with backup on the watch.
I have not encountered a place that doesn’t accept Apple Pay since I stopped going to Walmart years ago.
beastmode
Also, break free from RCS and from participating in group chats with anyone you can’t convince to move to another platform.
I daily drive grapheneOS, and wouldn’t go back to iOS or Google-ed Android for anything, but it really sucked having to tell friends, family, and others I couldn’t participate in our old group chats anymore.
EDIT: Apparently, they released a fix over the weekend, as aoude pointed out in another comment. So it’s working for me on AT&T now.
Link to instructions: https://grapheneos.org/usage#rcs
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Totally understood. It wasnt a deal-breaker for me, but I can see how it would be for others.
I’ve seen on the grapheneOS discuss boards that some people have gotten it to work, but none of their fixes have worked for me.
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I’m on AT&T so I will definitely try it!
Thank you!
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It worked! I’ll update my original comment! Thank you again!
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I tried to switch to grapheneOS after my iPhone broke. RCS incompatibility is why I ended up purchasing another refurbished iPhone.
Managed to get my immediate family to try out Signal, but the fact that EXIF data was stripped from photos made it a no-go. We share photos in our group chat very often, and photos saved from Signal having the wrong date/time and no location drove them bonkers.
Outside of immediate family, most of my friends would only communicate through Discord…yeah, no thanks, I’d rather use iMessage lol.
