At the end of the day, all you can really do is to start treating your phone more like a phone and stop carrying it everywhere and using it for everything.
The convenience of it has made it way too easy for people to spy on you.
No. You can do a lot more. You can develop alternatives and enforce anti monopoly legislation.
This. Degoogling and using FOSS alternatives can only take you so far. We should drastically reduce smartphone usage. I got a dumbphone so I can be reachable. Outside of work, my smartphone is mostly powered off. I can’t realistically get rid of it, as I need a bunch of banking apps, authenticators, Google Maps at times (and no, there’s no real alternative to this, everything else sucks). But I only use it when I absolutely need it. It’s gathering a lot less data than it used to. I’m striving to be as low value to big tech as possible. Reducing smartphone use has also done wonders for my wellbeing. I read more, I’ve regained my attention span, I have more time to do stuff I like. Stop scrolling, there’s nothing but bullshit on the next screen, you’re not missing out on anything. Stop trying to replace one app or site with another. Just let it go, it was never worth it.
My wife would hate it, if I were no longer reachable.
No. I haven’t used Google apps on my phone for years already. That includes Google Play Services and the Play Store. Most apps are open source and I’m self hosting my media.
We gotta claw this shit back.
In case you are looking for Google alternatives to other services, I highly recommend Organic Street Maps or Magic Earth or Kagi Maps instead of Google Maps. Also FreeTube or Yewtu.be instead of YouTube. And mail providers like Proton or Tuta Mail that are end-to-end encrypted. And VPNs like Proton or Mullvlad. And most of all search engines like DuckDuckGo or Ecosia or Kagi or Tor to onionize your search experience. There are many alternatives to Google. I try to recommend for people to move away from Google where they can. I realize Google has worked their way into many websites and can be hard to get around in that sense, but ad blockers and DNS resolvers like uBlock Origin and NextDNS help to prevent tracking from Google.
Do you have a good alternative to drive? Specifically we use it to share files in our household.
If you’re comfortable using a NAS, that is probably the best option, but Proton offers drive storage services that are end-to-end encrypted. For photos Ente Photos is a good option.
Google’s algorithms go through all the files you upload to their servers and check them for anything that might go against their terms of service. I mean you could encrypt yourself prior to uploading, but that’s a lot of work. If their algorithm labels even one file as violating their terms of service, they may lock you out of all your data and your account. Their appeal process is useless and is likely just checked by the same algorithm that closed the account in the first place or rubber stamped by a person who goes through thousands of reports a day. Most appeals are rejected and they just delete lifetimes of data/memories like it’s nothing. Of course backups are recommended. Their AI algorithms were rolled out too soon and should never be used as judge, jury, and executioner for people’s data.
Google reports cartoon images and family photos as well. Forbes for reported on it (https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2021/12/20/google-scans-gmail-and-drive-for-cartoons-of-child-sexual-abuse/). They closed a biggish profile YouTube channels account for cartoons as well (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naoki_Saito). Same for family photos/medical photos, of which there are plenty of reports from various news networks, the most prominent were probably the three from the NYT (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/21/technology/google-surveillance-toddler-photo.html, https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/30/technology/google-appeals-change.html, and https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/27/technology/google-youtube-abuse-mistake.html). Plus more from El Pais (https://english.elpais.com/science-tech/2022-09-19/google-closed-my-account-over-sexual-content-but-theyre-not-telling-me-what-it-is-and-ive-lost-everything.html), Buisness Insider (https://www.businessinsider.com/google-users-locked-out-after-years-2020-10?op=1), Android Police (https://www.androidpolice.com/2021/03/08/when-google-locks-you-out-of-your-account-begging-the-internet-for-help-is-your-first-and-last-resort/), India Times (https://english.elpais.com/science-tech/2022-09-19/google-closed-my-account-over-sexual-content-but-theyre-not-telling-me-what-it-is-and-ive-lost-everything.html), etc. And tons of self reporting (https://piunikaweb.com/2026/02/03/google-photos-false-csam-flags-users-locked-out/).
My point is that it is not black and white or as simple as don’t download it. There are plenty of cases in which a person would not know such as downloading an AI training set (https://www.404media.co/a-developer-accidentally-found-csam-in-ai-data-google-banned-him-for-it/). If they truly wanted to follow the law, it would be knowing possession that should end with a persons account being terminated. All other cases should end with maybe the file reported and deleted. But their system is highly flawed and most appeals are denied, which is nonsense when less then 1% of these reports end up with an arrest and even fewer lead to convictions (https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:pr592kc5483/cybertipline-paper-2024-04-22.pdf).
To be honest, I don’t think this is all a failure of Google or Meta or Microsoft, but the NCMEC and Thorn. They are the real threat to child safety, as they use their platform to claim to want to save children, but have other agendas (https://www.techdirt.com/2024/08/08/the-many-reasons-why-ncmecs-board-is-failing-its-mission-from-a-ncmec-insider/ and https://www.jezebel.com/ashton-kutcher-thorn-sex-workers-1850852760). Plus, at least Thorn has been found to lie about their numbers of children rescued (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/kutcher-software-child-trafficking/).
All Google, and the others, are doing is over reporting and making harder to find actual criminals. It hardly worth celebrating when one is caught while thousands of innocent people are being harmed. There needs to be penalties for false reports or an ability for people to reclaim their data/accounts when cleared of wrongdoing. The number of false positives is absurd and Facebook and LinkedIn researchers have both found it to be highly erroneous (https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/08/googles-scans-private-photos-led-false-accusations-child-abuse?language=en).
I think we desperately need data privacy and data protection laws. And the “think of the children” or “I have nothing to hide” arguments against them are just trickle down ideas from these data brokers who profit heavily from invading personal data.
I have thought about trying to get away from shit but it’s hard. If I want to stop using my phone regularly I need to purchase a GPS unit, wire up a charger for it on both my bikes (go deep in woods some times so I use gaia on my phone to figure out where I am), I’d need to get an mp3 player for music, and no more scheduling everything on my phone calendar. It’s an effort, but the more this convenience starts to cost (both in $ and privacy) the more willing I am to make the effort. Another major gripe I have with phones is their all so goddamn big now too, last comfortable to hold phone I had was a damned s3 now everything is a mini tablet and I have big hands. My SO hates phone shopping cuz her hands are tiny! Can’t hold the damn things with one hand anymore lol
If you are going through this much effort you could consider getting an /e/OS or GrapheneOS Phone?
My buddy has a pixel with graphene and loves it. I am not familiar with /e/os how does it compare? I have a not terribly old Moto G (2025) right now as it was the cheapest phone I could get locally after loosing my last one deep in the green mountians so I hate to have to get a new phone again already as this one seems to be unsupprted by either G or E os’s
Graphene os gives more options. If your minimalist you can use the phone as-is without a Google account, it has all the basic apps you need. If you need more you can install f-droid and use Foss apps. And finally I’d you still want Google based apps, you can set up sandboxed Google Play and use it as a fully featured android phone, all while keeping granular permissions on the Google Play services, depending on what you need it for.
Yea. Also have an old moto g and am sad to find that E and G os are not compatible.
I like to run poverty spec phones because I have a poor track record of breaking them. Shit I shattered a phone screen picking up a tire once, and I run case and screen protector at all times. I can’t be having a 600$ device in my pocket lmfao too big a loss when the inevitable happens.
Same here. Neuropathy fucked my hands so I drop shit all the time and phones have become unwieldy as fuck since touchscreens became the norm.
I literally shattered my phone screen dropping it on a skittle once.
I understand.
It’s a bummer what we have to consider to avoid people snooping, but it’s (at least in my humble opinion), necessary.
A good way to start breaking the habit and only using it when you need it is to just keep it in another area of your home. I keep mine in a bathroom drawer.
We need go start talking about the year of the GNU/Linux phone
Or the year of free (as in freedom) pocket computers, since the global telephony system goes against the freedoms.
Concerning that this thread is overrun with bots telling me to download some super duper safe LLM
Naw it happens, usually an instance goes rampant with bot accounts and gets nuked. It’s like the early days of Reddit round here.
TempleOS phone, when?
Hold my lithium
it’s never been your phone, bruh
especially if it’s using sim/esim card. Those mobile carriers can literally do whatever the fuck they want to your phone and there’s nothing you can do about it.
Google doing this is just the equivalent of what Apple has been doing for a while.
People need to buy more Linux phones. It’s the only way for the tech to improve.
I saw a Defcon talk about SIM cards a few years ago, really interesting stuff.
Most people treat SIM cards as just an ID to get on a carrier’s network, but they are soo much more.
When SIM cards were developed, they were designed to be the core of your phone, your handset would be just that, handset that would only run the software on the SIM card.
SIM cards are small computers, they have a CPU, RAM and storage, they can run apps on the SIM card itself and only present the UI to the phone.
With my first phones, I remember the contacts being stored on the SIM card itself, it usually took 30-60 sec to load them after a phone restart. But bloody convenient when switching phones, this was way before iCloud and other similar services, and moving your SIM card moved all your contacts as well.
Since SIM cards are controlled by the operator, they can do stuff that might surprise you, they can act as a trusted source for signing/encrypting/storing data, the user does not have direct access to tamper with the chip, so security apps have been developed to run on SIM cards, I don’t know the current status on this, but in countries with limited/older infrastructure, this was used for bank security apps, since the SIM is a locked down system, you can use it to securely store a key, and have the SIM use the key to generate a token, sign requests and even encrypt data, all without the key leaving the SIM.
Here is the talk I mentioned:
Thanks for the video link.
SIM cards are small computers, they have a CPU, RAM and storage, they can run apps on the SIM card itself and only present the UI to the phone.
Someone once managed to contain a very small webserver in it.
especially if it’s using sim/esim card. Those mobile carriers can literally do whatever the fuck they want to your phone and there’s nothing you can do about it.
Wow that’s wild, how does my SIM card allow my carrier to do whatever they want to my phone?
On the face of it, that sounds like a gigantic breach of privacy. Can they look at my photos, capture my screen, read my stored app data, intercept outbound Internet traffic before it’s encrypted, etc? That’s wild.
Not to mention that I bought my phone separately, so it’s got nothing to do with them. As one might imagine, I only added a SIM in order to receive traditional telephone calls, it’s not otherwise useful to me.
Oh how fun is that the definition of “phone” has changed.
This is all speculation on my side but it can’t look into your files or anything. What we call a smartphone today is actually a combination of a very powerful computer and a telephone in the same chassis. The SIM card can do a lot in the phone part of your smartphone: send/receive/process messages, calls, track your location etc. not open and see through your camera though.
Do Linux phones need to run a Kickstarter?
SailfishOS is a (non-Android) Linux phone that may be viable right meow!
SailfishOS runs fine (well?) on the Sony Xperia or the Jolla C2.
I just bought one a few weeks ago, but I haven’t had time to fully set it up yet (my house has been falling apart). I’m in the US with Mint Mobile and calls and SMS work. Camera works. Battery life is pretty decent. They have an Android compatibility layer that integrates pretty well into Sailfish. I was able to install F-Droid on it and then Bitwarden and Molly (Signal client) so far.
One of the more trickier apps I may need to install is Tailscale… but I’m thinking maybe I can switch to Netbird and use their reverse proxy and remove the need to install a VPN client on the phone altogether.
I’m not a heavy smartphone user, so for me I’m thinking this might be a viable path to take.
p.d. Yes, you can bring up a terminal. :)
People thinking this isn’t a monopoly enforcement action in disguise are the same people who think banning Huawei was justified.
Google’s one mistake was that they sold Motorolla to Lenovo, who ran it as low cost shovelware to make the mobile phone market in the US not look like a complete oligopoly. They kept their cost low by using complete stock Google ROMs while every other OEM exited the market.
Until recently when Lenovo properly built up their hardware lineup and started jumping ship to GrapheneOS the moment Google started clamping down.
That and thinking that they won’t be sued to oblivion for this. People are looking for ways to do lawsuits and this is a big one
Of course the US won’t do jack shit. Google always wins in reality even when they lose in US antitrust courts. But other countries can maybe win. Please do!
I was just getting home picking up my new second hand Pixel 3a to install PostmarketOS on. Wish me luck :)
Love how every comment in this thread is just the same guy spamming some AI bullshit website. They are all 1 day old accounts from Lemmy.cafe instance. Blocked all of them.
“Android fans”
I got grapheneOS on my phone right now. Go fuck yourself, google.
I will also do my damn best to make sure my older Samsung S23 doesn’t fall into that version. I have uses for that phone.
Yea but you had to buy a google phone right or do they support more phones now
Sadly I had to. But Motorola did support… before I got a Samsung I had a grapheneOS compatible Motorola, but it broke down.
Motorola is starting to offer grapheneOS compatible phones or so they said, on the regular.
Can you explain a bit more? I’ve had one laying around for 2 years and haven’t updated it.
About to…?
– sincerely Apple users.I currently run GraphineOS. I will probably buy one more refurb phone that can run it until Android is dead. Then I am switching to a dumb phone for calls and SMS, and a mobile hotspot connected to a pocket sized cyberdeck. I can still run the apps I want and no longer need Android. With a 3d printer, 25 years of being an electrical and software engineer I can easily make a device that does what I actually want.
Is this practical for the average person? Of course not. But this whole problem is something the average person can fix. STOP BUYING SHIT FROM COMPANIES WHO SCREW YOU!!! Use your power as a consumer and stop giving them money. Make them feel the pain of doing anti-consumer actions. None of this stuff is a requirement for life. If they see a hit in sales, if everyone who makes apps pulls them from the app store, they will change. But it requires everyone to act, and we damn well know most of yall will do nothing but complain.
This problem is a foot gun where we are all buying the gun, loading it, handing it to someone while sticking our foot out and we want to blame them for the bloody hole. Stop it!
A major hardware and software change is happening in my life too, Google, to excise you from every facet of my life.
As a person who uses a few sideloaded apps, this is sad news.
Well, as far as I know the current idea is that you’ll have to toggle a setting in developer options and wait 24 hours (once). After that you can sideload unverified stuff as much as you like. So it’s not horribly sad, I´d say.
I actually kind of think that’s a reasonable change. It improves safety for the clueless majority, but it still gives those that know what they are doing a free reign with a minor initial inconvenience. And I kind of feel like articles still claiming how horrible this all is are mostly just outrage farming. Unless the plans have changed to something more fucked up, that is.
No, it’s not reasonable. Fuck the clueless majority. Stupid people should be prevented from hurting others, but they should not be prevented from hurting themselves. If you manage to download malware that’s on you, no big brother should ever be controlling what you can and can’t install on your personal fuckin devices. I’m a fucking adult and I do not need or want some bullshit fucking kid mode imposed on my personal shit because Google went full fucking nazi. Companies have no business dictating how you use your own purchases property. Imagine your fucking car saying nah you’ve already driven twenty miles today it’s not safe for you to drive more and just shutting the fuck down. Every motherfucker making these decisions in every industry need to be publicly gruesomely executed. The owner class needs to remember who they’re accountable to.
I have some bad news for you about cars…
deleted by creator
If that’s the case, then Google really needs to fix the play store because you can absolutely get malware from there. This change is mostly to start locking down the ecosystem to force users to only be able to pay Google a cut of all revenue on the platform (apple already does this). It’s bullshit, and it hopefully backfires for Google.
Google also allowed malware ads, and phishing ads since its existence
This change is the opposite. It makes it possible for a user to install the Epic Games Store from their website without seeing a scary warning, and Google won’t get a cut of any of the revenues from that store. The same with any other company. Netflix can now offer their app from their website, and people can install it without any warning, and Netflix won’t have to send any revenue to Google for people who subscribe in the app.
Uh, no it’s not. Quite literally the opposite actually. You can get apks for your apps outside of the play store currently, just have to install them yourself (yeah, you need to check a box to install third party apps once, but that’s it). The proposed change from google is mostly to make that harder, and make most users locked more into the play store ecosystem so that Google gets their cut from everything.
Publicly traded companies are soulless entities that are legally bound to 1 and only 1 goal, short term profits. Any time you see a company do something stupid, ineffectual, completely pointless, ect., then what you are seeing is step one in a plan. It is costing them money and future profits to make these changes that they know will be wildly unpopular just to maybe, sort of, possibly could, but won’t really, protect a very small number of the dumbest people on the planet? No, companies ruin, poison, make homeless, and kill people constantly while being completely aware of what they are doing. They do it and continue to come up with new ways to do it because they have just the 1 goal, profit. So, if this is not altruism then what is it? That’s what people are upset about. Because there are a lot of reasons for them not to do this, but the only reasons for them to do it are all bad in addition to violating their 1 goal. And they are still doing it anyway.
boooooo
If that’s the plan that is perfectly reasonable to me. Thank!
