Its always good to try!
A Fairphone with GrapheneOS would be the tops
GrapheneOS doesn’t like Fairphone very much it seems…
Their gripe seems more to do with eOS, but they kinda couple them together. Hardware-wise fairphone is only deficient in its security chip. I do agree with GrapheneOS in criticisms of eOS’s philosophy and security and privacy goals. The founder of eOS is a prick.
GrapheOS doesn’t like anyone. I don’t even think they should be treated as part of open phone community. They are hostile to everything that they didn’t make.
Sure would be the toppiest of tops!
We can encourage them to work together in their official communication channels too!
Would be good for both of them on every level. GrapheneOS learning to make their own phones, and Fairphone learning to make an OS while both being partnered
Edit: Be the change you want to see everybody!! Flood the gates with what we want!
Graphene already has a partnership with Motorola now so the assumption is some time (I’ve seen 2027 speculated) we may get a Graphene Phone from Motorola. Mixed feelings about them partnering with a company like that but we’ll see how it goes. I still keep thinking about finally getting a secondhand pixel 10 so I can switch to Graphene from apple.
I would recommend it. Very worth it overall (As a user of a similar Pixel phone)
What are your use cases?
It 👏 should 👏 be 👏 the 👏 law 👏 .
I don’t know how they managed to sneak locking a system to a single boot loader. And what about Qualcomm chips? They have a hypervisor OS, you say? A small operating system that can read all your memory? Updated as firmware?
Great, forcibly open source that system as well and tell them once and for all that they can fuck off. No, you don’t get to control another persons property - you disgusting goblin.
Either that, or ban the sale of such devices permanently across Europe.
That too! I covered that in another of my recent posts on the Europe community on here
That is a big thing Europe can at least make happen and in Asian/African/Latin countries too.
I like your addition though that is all facts!! Let’s keep pushing countries to make that happen.
To make them undo what Google is trying to do currently and what Apple does for long time to have all those devices be fully changeable for the OS
Needs to become a movement everywhere!!! Just as StooKillingGames, and the KeepAndroidOpen movements
We need a catchy name for it
Can you give me some reading on this? I am happy to make noise about an issue once I understand it.
There’s a lot of writing and history behind open source, open firmware and even open hardware, but the BIGGEST thing you can focus on is the transition from PCs to smartphones around the 2000s.
We went from you installing whatever boot loader and operating system that could run on your device, to a locked down boot loader that would only load the vendors operating system.
They hide behind security through obscurity, but it’s been debunked. The boot loader and even firmwares of devices have in certain cases been found to be gushing gashes of CVEs and bad coding - but only through decompilation and reverse engineering. In fact, after the 5 year warranty of your device is up, you should consider the security of your device highly suspect.
The true purpose for an exclusive locked down boot loader is to maintain operating system monopoly, force uninstallable apps/services on a user, to then be able to track & canvas the user to sell on the data brokerage market - not to mention planned obsolescence, because if you can’t freely modify and update your firmware and/or boatloader, you could secure it for more than 5 years.
For a more balanced take and to see “both sides”, read this
Other than that, the LibreBoot mailing list will help you to unearth the hypocrisy and lies fed to us by hardware vendors.
Free the firmware, free the bootloader, free the operating system, free the drivers, free the software - and then the user can decide wether or not they want to run commercial software on top of all this.
Anything else is subservience.
Thanks for this, I am interested in the philosophy around FOSS, I am tech illiterate basically and like foss because I trust it more than US tech.
Fairphone? perhaps. Samsung? hell naw. Samsung heavily benefits from the spyware it builds into One UI and 99% of its user base do not care about the spyware.
But I do hope hope that Fairphone begins to embrace Linux support.Samsung heavily benefits from the spyware it builds into One UI and 99% of its user base do not care about the spyware.
They go out of their way to ensure that it cannot be disabled even if you do care about the spyware and try to uninstall or disable it.
Per GOS: Samsung has almost all hardware requirements to support GOS except… they purposely cripple their device upon installation of a third party OS. One can only suspect they indeed make money with their spyware stack!
What is the bottleneck holding Fairphone back from supporting Linux fully?
Qualcomm
@viov @pineapple That they are not fair et all. A really fair phone should start at that you can install its OS from a pendrive. Fairphone is a big f.g lie.
Hardware should be software agnostic
That’s not how hardware works, like at all. I agree with the spirit of what you’re asking for but you can’t just wave a magic wand and put any software on any hardware.
The problem is that even if somebody out there is willing to go to the work of making device drives, bootloaders and OS releases for the hardware, it still can’t happen because the information about how to talk to the hardware isn’t open, same thing for the bootloader and even if those things are reverse engineered often even the ability to install an OS there is locked down on the hardware.
As you correctly say, the dream of any software just running anywhere isn’t possible because that’s not how hardware works, but the current situation is not one were what’s blocking it isn’t just the natural architectural structure of hardware, it’s one where the hardware makers have purposefully and to quite an extreme level locked down their hardware so that even if people are willing to do the work of doing what it takes to run an OS there, they can’t because necessary info to use the hardware isn’t available and the hardware is even locked down against OS installations for those who don’t have the necessary cryptographic keys.
Exactly. This was less important before the internet got ubiquitous, but nowadays, when manufacturers can screw you remotely, it’s very important.
This kind of vertical integration, where a single entity controls both hardware and software shouldn’t exist.
And the other way, too. The whole reason why Android chose Java was because it was, at the time, one of the better languages and runtimes for creating hardware-agnostic software. Now that a software ecosystem is in place, why should Google be able to control what hardware the already-written software runs on?
@GamingChairModel @Glitch How about formulating meaningful content? Your question is bullshit!
Very true. Covered that in my post on Europe
It was very disappointing to find out that GOS was incompatible with every phone brand but one. It is coherent with the Zeitgeist: why care about security and privacy when users will dump all their information in Google and Facebook?
That’s borderline with the purity fallacy: that one should not deserve privacy and security because of one or more bad practice.
I believe not so many people give away “everything”, and many more probably don’t realize how much they give.
There are many reasons one would keep a FB account, or a Google account around. That does not mean that person abandoned all rights on privacy and even less on security.
And how would you recommend a soft transition if you’re in a all-or-nothing approach? One day on Google, FB, what’s not, and in an instant: new device, new OS, drop everything at once? Nearly no one will do that.
The reason GOS does not support more devices is not because of where other brands vs privacy and security, it’s a pure hardware requirements they don’t meet. If the Motorola devices are a commercial success, most likely other phone makers will be interested.
the Motorola devices are a commercial success, most likely other phone makers will be interested.
That’s not going to happen because Samsung earns more selling private data than selling phones
I wasn’t counting on Samsung. Indeed: Samsung already meets all the criteria to support GOS, but they cripple their phone upon alternative OS installation.
There are other phone makers left.
The idea that the Major Software Enshittificator which is Samsung would ever go along with this is incredibly naive.
Samsung was one of the first to fill their smartphones and tables with tons of useless “Samsung” software that can’t be removed by normal means, and even people who had their older and less insanely stuffed with junk devices got them forcefully filled with that crap via updates (making their older devices unusable, “incentivizing” them to get new ones).
Samsung hasn’t been consumer friendly for at least a decade.
When smartphones became a thing, everyone had Samsungs. I played around on a classmate’s Samsung Galaxy Whateverthefuck (might’ve been a Gio or a Y) and in addition to the hardware itself being shit because it was a low-end device in like 2010 or 2011, the software was HORRIBLE. So I vowed never to buy a Samsung and I still haven’t. Maybe their software got good, maybe it didn’t… But my first smartphone was an Xperia and the one after that was the second-gen Moto G. Quite stock-like Android and that’s what I’ve preferred since (though I’m now on iOS, but that’s a different story)
I wish we have more choice for linux phone
At least one. Just one actively manufactured phone with full hardware support 🙏
Fairphone should focus on helping the Linux options move along, no need waste resources on GOS, just another android ROM
Long term android should die off in place of Linux but its a long road
Have UT running on a Nord phone, they have made good strides over the years, appreciate their dedication
Agreed that Fairphone should do more but in all fairness, they already do some, at least. They sell their phones with /e/OS (French de-Googled Android) and it’s easy to unlock the boot loader. I’m typing this from my Fairphone 3+ with /e/OS and I had Ubuntu Touch installed for years.
Both tantalizingly close with respect to GrapheneOS. I wouldn’t expect Samsung to ever support the other two, but their phones are supposed to have every security element GOS expects. Only problem is that Samsung wants to make their own walled-garden ecosystem a la Apple.
I do remember reading somewhere that GrapheneOS are open to someone making a GSI (generic system image) port that would work with phones like Fairphone, which GOS don’t want to officially support due to a lack of security features. I wonder if anyone has started work on such a thing.
Fairphone and samsung are absolutely not the same kind. I want to point fairphone is officially distributing /e/OS which is a niche of 2-3 brands. This company that is nowhere in size close to samsung also engages hardcore in device repairability making its phones be a flagship. If anything just let them be successful and tempt others to follow their lead. I would love graphene os to be better supported but just don’t put all the strain on the one doing good. (I type this from my FP6 /e/OS)
@furtiveParalysis @viov Fairphone should start the “fairness” that I can reinstall its OS like of a PC. It does not do that, IT IS CLOSED HARDWARE LIKE A SAMSUNG, so do not buy it!!!
There there, go buy one when you next need.
(links are in french but you surely haven’t searched at all before spreading hate in capital letters)
to Install e/OS/: https://forum.fairphone.com/t/a-safe-guide-to-install-e-os-on-your-fairphone/128019
to install android: https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/18896094650513-How-to-manually-install-Android-on-your-Fairphone
Unlock the bootloader https://www.fairphone.com/fr/bootloader-unlocking-code-for-fairphone
I’m in the embedded market and have kept my first FP3 8 years it was pretty outdated technically but its fairness is intact (in fact it’s still in use).
It is not a FOSS hardware indeed, it isn’t like a samsung either, it is I think the top of the game among existing consumer solutions.
@furtiveParalysis I summarize your answer: “Yes it is closed hardware, you badass linux guy. Here can you crack it, like of a f…ing samsung: <link>”
You are a badass linux guy mate. Although a bit hater than solution oriented
@furtiveParalysis Why don’t you simply admit, it is not fair at all, it is only a marketing trash? It is the same like a samsung. Or motorola.
Because i’m not convinced by your argument. You side on the puritain view and I’m pragmatic, therefore we disagree despite being broadly on the same page.
Ya. Short term Motorola for Graphene, long term any that support postmarketos
I have a newer Pixel phone and I’m comfortable installing and running custom ROMs from doing so regularly back in the day - for those who’ve daily driven both, what are the reasons I should NOT switch from the stock OS to GrapheneOS?
How come Linux worked on desktop but on phones it is having such a hard time even tho Android has the linux kernel( i think).
Is PC hardware more open and known to everyone about everything while mobile dosent? And if that is the case then why arent phone opening itself for support?
Because ARM is a fucking mess. Each device has it’s own way of booting. There’s no standard like UEFI or BIOS.
Plus you need propreitary code for modem to support 2G, 3G, 4G…etc. which are complicated to implement.
Would that be a good focus? To get a unified standard for ARM developed to get many devs together to make software/OS’es for it and adapt phones to use those OS’3#
That’s really sad, so basically until and unless companies make open drivers there is nothing we as a consumer can do tbh. I dont really think Qualcomm or MediiaTek will ever do that. And cellular things like 4g and 5g are the least one to be open ever.
Fairphone has their own with /e/OS
Switching my fairphone to e/os today
Has anyone heard word if Moto is still planning on rolling out flagship phones with e/OS by 2027 still?
I heard Graphene. They’re doing e/OS as well?
I thought it was e/OS but you’re probably right.
Just double checked you’re right it is graphene their going with
