Discord is an absolute piece of garbage, it’s not a good messaging app, definitely not a good place to host a community (seriously, I don’t understand why some communities saw Discord as an alternative after the Reddit API changes), and most importantly, it’s spyware. The company doesn’t have a business model and it was founded by a guy who is notorious for creating random shit that’s not economically sustainable at all. I don’t understand why anyone would use this shit. This video outlines everything that’s wrong with Discord: https://youtube.com/watch?v=uvNkdAggUGU
The problem is convincing other people to switch as well. There’s no point in me using Matrix if all of the people I want to communicate with only want to use Discord.
Because they didn’t reinvent xmpp, they reinvented Google Wave.
A lot of Matrix.org is inspired by what Wave could have been - although we are running late with threading (but some work is happening currently there). From our perspective, one of the biggest gaps was the lack of bridging in Wave to other existing comms interfaces (eg email) - as well as the quirky UX.
What part of Matrix is proprietary? It’s not an app, instead, it’s an open protocol that can be used by anyone to build a messaging app or host a server.
Matrix isn’t proprietary, but effectively controlled by a single VC funded startup. We don’t need a bloated re-invention of existing internet standards anyways. They should just make a better XMPP client.
Yes, but compatibility with existing internet standards is also important. For example you can’t have end-to-end encryption if you use a non-standard protocol. VC startups like Matrix only increase fragmentation of the ecosystem.
TIL that XMPP is defined in an RFC. You’re correct, I wasn’t aware of that. I really don’t understand why the IETF take such a decision though. I don’t know why these guys are defining high-level protocols for things like messaging at all.
But back to your earlier points:
For example you can’t have end-to-end encryption if you use a non-standard protocol
This doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. Matrix has E2EE while using a “non-standard” protocol. So does Signal, in fact, it created the strongest E2EE protocol out there.
VC startups like Matrix only increase fragmentation of the ecosystem
Every new project that is created increases fragmentation. So does Revolt, Discord, Skype, WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, etc. These all use “non-standard” protocols.
Also, the author of RFC 6120 is a Cisco employee, how is a multinational corporation better than a VC-funded startup? XMPP is an open standard, just like the Matrix protocol. It doesn’t matter who created it.
Discord is an absolute piece of garbage, it’s not a good messaging app, definitely not a good place to host a community (seriously, I don’t understand why some communities saw Discord as an alternative after the Reddit API changes), and most importantly, it’s spyware. The company doesn’t have a business model and it was founded by a guy who is notorious for creating random shit that’s not economically sustainable at all. I don’t understand why anyone would use this shit. This video outlines everything that’s wrong with Discord: https://youtube.com/watch?v=uvNkdAggUGU
Switch to Revolt or Matrix
The problem is convincing other people to switch as well. There’s no point in me using Matrix if all of the people I want to communicate with only want to use Discord.
I don’t understand why Revolt decided to reinvent the wheel and not use Matrix. They could’ve been a great alternative server and/or UI.
I agree
Why don’t you ask the Matrix team why they decided to re-invent XMPP and add a stupid HTTP API?
@onlinepersona
@netchami
Because they didn’t reinvent xmpp, they reinvented Google Wave.
Arathorn on Feb 18, 2018 on HackerNews
I take it you weren’t aware that Google Wave was based on XMPP.
https://www.networkworld.com/article/757722/opensource-subnet-nine-new-apps-that-show-off-the-power-of-google-wave.html
@onlinepersona
Thank you, I did not know that!
Very interesting.
Why switch from 1 proprietary app to another?
Matrix is terrible, disorganized and incredibly slow.
What part of Matrix is proprietary? It’s not an app, instead, it’s an open protocol that can be used by anyone to build a messaging app or host a server.
I was referring to Revolt
It isn’t proprietary either
How is it not?
https://github.com/revoltchat
Being open source doesn’t mean it’s not proprietary
Do u mean in terms of licensing? GPL and such
Matrix isn’t proprietary, but effectively controlled by a single VC funded startup. We don’t need a bloated re-invention of existing internet standards anyways. They should just make a better XMPP client.
VCs suck, but Matrix is open source, everyone can self-host their own server, write their own client or even fork the entire protocol.
Yes, but compatibility with existing internet standards is also important. For example you can’t have end-to-end encryption if you use a non-standard protocol. VC startups like Matrix only increase fragmentation of the ecosystem.
Who defines standard internet protocols and how is XMPP one of them??? “Standard internet protocols” are DNS, HTTP, TLS, etc.
The organization is called the IETF. The XMPP core is defined in RFC 6120 and RFC 6121 like DNS, HTTP, etc. are defined in RFCs.
TIL that XMPP is defined in an RFC. You’re correct, I wasn’t aware of that. I really don’t understand why the IETF take such a decision though. I don’t know why these guys are defining high-level protocols for things like messaging at all.
But back to your earlier points:
This doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. Matrix has E2EE while using a “non-standard” protocol. So does Signal, in fact, it created the strongest E2EE protocol out there.
Every new project that is created increases fragmentation. So does Revolt, Discord, Skype, WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, etc. These all use “non-standard” protocols.
Also, the author of RFC 6120 is a Cisco employee, how is a multinational corporation better than a VC-funded startup? XMPP is an open standard, just like the Matrix protocol. It doesn’t matter who created it.