Grok has been launched as a benefit to Twitter’s (now X’s) expensive X Premium+ subscription tier, where those who are the most devoted to the site, and in turn, usual...
Let me preface by saying that I myself am not making a political statement, just a quick retort/correction:
“…Seems they [biologists] have achieved something like a consensus on the matter [trans women are women]. I don’t see anything inherently political”
No, that’s not a scientific question or statement, it’s a sociological one, which makes it intrinsically political.
We, as a society, or a large enough group, can come up with a consensus belief that trans rights are human rights and that we can collectively treat other people by the gender role of their choice.
But biologically speaking, being trans doesn’t change one’s chromosomes. Which is why I think it’s misguided to say that trans issues are actually questions that hard science should answer, they aren’t.
Which, ironically, is why Elon’s moronic AI gambit is failing (by his metrics), because the online culture he used to as a dataset to train it, has collectively agreed that trans women are women, amongst other social and political opinions that his sycophants can’t stand.
He probably should have trained it with TruthSocial’s cesspool instead.
I can’t wait to see Tay AI 2.0 level reincarnation after they “retrain it”. It’s going be to hilarious.
I mean, science is a framework that can be applied to anything. Sociology included. So we can’t currently measure a genetic cause for trans. I guess that means our current best measurement is what gender people associate with, what they personally feel is right. That also happens to be the best path towards not being a dick to people who feel like their gender does not match their “biological” gender.
If and when we can improve our measurements of this maybe we’ll learn something new. Maybe we can learn what components of nature and nurture lead to gender disphoria. Then we can try to further improve quality of life for affected folks.
Fun fact, chromosomes aren’t the whole story when it comes to the way a person’s body develops and isn’t a useful measure of what someone’s gender is in any form. There are plenty of women that aren’t trans with xy chromosomes and vice versa with men. See swyer and de la Chapelle syndromes for more information. There are all sorts of combinations of chromosomes someone can have and we aren’t anywhere limited to just xx or xy.
What are your chromosomes? What are Elon Musk’s chromosomes? You seem to be positing the idea that chromosomes are the ultimate determinant of “womanhood” and “manhood”, but you, like most of humanity, probably don’t even know what chromosomes you have. To quote you: “biologically speaking” there are scores of cis men and women whose chromosomes would surprise you. “Biologically speaking” there isn’t any usable definition of man or woman that excludes trans people without excluding cis people. You and a lot of people make an assumption of what their chromosomes are in order to exclude trans people (because you assume you know theirs too). And maybe we shouldn’t. Maybe that’s bullshit.
Alright, you convinced me. I’m switching to Team Elmo.
That was your goal right? Take someone who agrees with your larger belief system, find something you can nitpick, and then berate them about it until they can’t stomach the thought of politically aligning with you?
Because you did a bang up job.
Now excuse me, I need to go sign up for Twitter Blue and get some MAGA hats.
They’re saying chromosomes are a good measure for “transness” or “cisness”.
No, they’re not. They’re saying that because a person’s chromosomes don’t change based on whether they are trans or cis that a clear biological answer to the question being posed is impossible.
Like… did you read the rest of the person’s comment? It’s pretty clear they are not anti-trans if you read the entire context and don’t just cherry pick a random sentence .
I’d argue that it’s pretty obvious that man and woman are socially constructed, and as such - there’s just no fact of the matter to get down to. I also find that most things of strict self-id basically become just a place to have “no true scotsman” arguments, and therefore we’d be better served to stop using the terms for policy making at the very least.
Let me preface by saying that I myself am not making a political statement, just a quick retort/correction:
No, that’s not a scientific question or statement, it’s a sociological one, which makes it intrinsically political.
We, as a society, or a large enough group, can come up with a consensus belief that trans rights are human rights and that we can collectively treat other people by the gender role of their choice.
But biologically speaking, being trans doesn’t change one’s chromosomes. Which is why I think it’s misguided to say that trans issues are actually questions that hard science should answer, they aren’t.
Which, ironically, is why Elon’s moronic AI gambit is failing (by his metrics), because the online culture he used to as a dataset to train it, has collectively agreed that trans women are women, amongst other social and political opinions that his sycophants can’t stand.
He probably should have trained it with TruthSocial’s cesspool instead.
I can’t wait to see Tay AI 2.0 level reincarnation after they “retrain it”. It’s going be to hilarious.
Sociology is a social science.
I mean, science is a framework that can be applied to anything. Sociology included. So we can’t currently measure a genetic cause for trans. I guess that means our current best measurement is what gender people associate with, what they personally feel is right. That also happens to be the best path towards not being a dick to people who feel like their gender does not match their “biological” gender.
If and when we can improve our measurements of this maybe we’ll learn something new. Maybe we can learn what components of nature and nurture lead to gender disphoria. Then we can try to further improve quality of life for affected folks.
Fun fact, chromosomes aren’t the whole story when it comes to the way a person’s body develops and isn’t a useful measure of what someone’s gender is in any form. There are plenty of women that aren’t trans with xy chromosomes and vice versa with men. See swyer and de la Chapelle syndromes for more information. There are all sorts of combinations of chromosomes someone can have and we aren’t anywhere limited to just xx or xy.
What are your chromosomes? What are Elon Musk’s chromosomes? You seem to be positing the idea that chromosomes are the ultimate determinant of “womanhood” and “manhood”, but you, like most of humanity, probably don’t even know what chromosomes you have. To quote you: “biologically speaking” there are scores of cis men and women whose chromosomes would surprise you. “Biologically speaking” there isn’t any usable definition of man or woman that excludes trans people without excluding cis people. You and a lot of people make an assumption of what their chromosomes are in order to exclude trans people (because you assume you know theirs too). And maybe we shouldn’t. Maybe that’s bullshit.
Alright, you convinced me. I’m switching to Team Elmo.
That was your goal right? Take someone who agrees with your larger belief system, find something you can nitpick, and then berate them about it until they can’t stomach the thought of politically aligning with you?
Because you did a bang up job.
Now excuse me, I need to go sign up for Twitter Blue and get some MAGA hats.
You do you, my friend. -Team Gonzo
The person you’re replying to doesn’t seem to be implying anything you’re arguing against in your response.
"Being trans doesn’t change one’s chromosomes "
They’re saying chromosomes are a good measure for “transness” or “cisness”. I’m saying it’s not. And there isn’t a measure.
No, they’re not. They’re saying that because a person’s chromosomes don’t change based on whether they are trans or cis that a clear biological answer to the question being posed is impossible.
Like… did you read the rest of the person’s comment? It’s pretty clear they are not anti-trans if you read the entire context and don’t just cherry pick a random sentence .
I’d argue that it’s pretty obvious that man and woman are socially constructed, and as such - there’s just no fact of the matter to get down to. I also find that most things of strict self-id basically become just a place to have “no true scotsman” arguments, and therefore we’d be better served to stop using the terms for policy making at the very least.
Completely agree. You said what I was trying to say probably better than I did.