• rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    6
    arrow-down
    52
    ·
    6 months ago

    You can be killed with steel, which has a lot of other implications on what you do in order to avoid getting killed with steel.

    Does steel fuck it all up?

    Centralization is a shitty backwards idea. But you have to be very conscious of yourself and your instincts to neuter the part that tells you that it’s not to understand it.

    Distributivism minus Catholicism is just so good. I always return to it when I give up on trying to find future in some other political ideology.

    • patatahooligan@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      28
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      6 months ago

      This has nothing to do with centralization. AI companies are already scraping the web for everything useful. If you took the content from SO and split it into 1000 federated sites, it would still end up in a AI model. Decentralization would only help if we ever manage to hold the AI companies accountable for the en masse copyright violations they base their industry on.

      • Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        6 months ago

        Can you explain how reddit comments or stack overflow answers are “copyright infringement”?

        Doesn’t seem relevant to the specific problem this post is about.

      • JackbyDev@programming.dev
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        6 months ago

        The irony is that folks complain about stuff like Discord partly because it cannot be scraped by search engines but that would also protect it from being scraped by AI tools.

      • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        6 months ago

        This has everything to do with centralization, just not with the one small context for it which you picked.

        With real decentralization in place market mechanisms work.

        • Aceticon@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          6 months ago

          Copyright is an artificial, government given Monopoly.

          Market Mechanisms don’t work when faced with a Monopoly or work badly in situations distorted by the presence of a Monopoly (which is more this case, since Stack Overflow has a monopoly in the reproduction of each post in that website but the same user could post the same answer elsewhere thus creating an equivalent work).

          Pretty much in every situation where Intellectual Property is involved you see the market failing miserably: just notice the current situation with streaming services which would be completelly different if there was no copyright and hence no possibility of exclusivity of distribution of any titles (and hence streaming services would have to compete in terms of quality of service).

          The idea that the Free Market is something that works everywhere (or even in most cases) is Politically-driven Magic thinking, not Economics.

          • floofloof@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            6 months ago

            Market forces lead to the creation of large corporations that then shut down market forces and undermine fair markets. Once a few big corporations dominate they coordinate their behavior and prices and shut down any new players entering the market. Regulation can counter it to a point, but once the corporations are wealthy enough to dominate government regulation also fails. Right wingers hasten the process by opposing regulation, and have no good answer to how to prevent markets collapsing into monopolies or cartels. I’m not sure anyone has a good answer to that in a capitalist system.

          • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            6 months ago

            You are not arguing with me. Not reading comments before answering them is disrespectful.

            • Aceticon@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              edit-2
              6 months ago

              This has everything to do with centralization, just not with the one small context for it which you picked.

              With real decentralization in place market mechanisms work.

              Monopoly situations along with market mechanisms invariably result in centralization (“monopoly” comes from the Greek word for “right of exclusive sale”), hence market mechanism won’t “work” in the sense you mean it in such a scenario, as I explained.

              Your argument is circular because it’s like saying that it will work as long as it creates the conditions to make itself work (which is the same as saying “as long as it works”).

              • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                6 months ago

                Decentralization and distribution should be enforced, yes.

                By, for example, institutionalized resistance to anything like IP law, to regulations and certifications allowing bigger fish to call those who can’t afford them, and at the same time by maintaining regulations against obvious fraud.

                It’s not a circular argument, you’re just not paying attention.

                The friendliness of political systems to decentralization doesn’t correlate much with their alignment in terms of left\right or even authoritarian\libertarian. So in my opinion this should be a third dimension on that political compass everybody’s gotten tired of seeing. And there are many other dimensions to add then, so useless.

        • JackbyDev@programming.dev
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          6 months ago

          You realize that there have been multiple websites scraped, right? So decentralizing doesn’t solve this issue in particular. Especially when federated sites like Lemmy provide a view of the entire fediverse (more or less).

      • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        6 months ago

        Of leftist ideologies it’s the best one, but not as beautiful and overarching as distributivism.

    • Hamartia@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      6 months ago

      List of Distributist parties in the UK:

      • National Distributist Party
      • British National Party
      • National Front

      Hmmm, maybe the Catholic part isn’t the only part worth reviewing.

      Also worth noting that the Conservative Party’s ‘Big Society’ schtick in 2010 was wrapped in the trappings of distributism.

      Not that all this diminishes it entirely but it does seem to be an entry drug for exploitation by the right.

      I gotta hold my hand up and state that I am not read up on it at all, so happy to be corrected. But my impression is that Pope Leo XIII’s conception was to reduce secular power so as to leave a void for the church to fill. And it’s the potential exploitation of that void that attracts the far right too.

      • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        6 months ago

        but it does seem to be an entry drug for exploitation by the right.

        Well, it is a right ideology. It can be that, of course.