Following arguments on the Linux kernel mailing list the past few days over some Linux kernel maintainers being against the notion of Rust code in the mainline Linux kernel and trying to avoid it and very passionate views over the Linux kernel development process, Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin has removed himself from being an upstream maintainer of the ARM Apple code.
This news along with the news of WiFi driver maintainer stepping down, feels like there won’t be any new blood in Linux kernel development except for corporate funded developers.
The anti Rust bullshit is gonna kill Linux’s growth.
it seemed like the innocent(ish) holy wars of the past like emacs vs vi; but it’s taken on a whole new destructive trajectory of its own and the old guard would rather see Linux ossify into irrelevancy rather than letting the next generation take over.
it reminds me of an old quote from a general to the effect of: if 5 americans survive a nuclear war and 4 russian survive; then we’ve won and it was worth it.
either that or it’s like the technological equivalent of the the democratic leadership w disaffected democratic voters leading to defeat in this last election or an elderly driver whose grown children are trying to take away their keys before things get worse; all are refusing to acknowledge the writing on the wall because they think they still got it, but they don’t.
Unless those old farts die first
It’s really a bummer seeing how much childish drama is in the Linux dev community.
I am not nearly a good enough dev to contribute to the Linux kernel, but I am working my way towards that point currently at night after my kids are in bed. Be the change and what not.
There is a reason the type of devs who have the talent, passion and time for projects like this are not spending 60hrs/wk at Google.
Linus needs to step back again. He’s a liability to the kernel’s long term sustainability.
Rust seems to be imperative for security. I hope people in the Linux kernel community put aside their differences and find common ground for the benefit of everyone.
From my perspective as an outsider, there is a lot of apparent hostility and seemingly bad faith engagements going on in this space. Hopefully the reasons are innocuous like them just not wanting to learn a new language, to avoid increasing their workload, or to simply avoid working with the Rust team for whatever reasons they might have.
I would argue that anybody standing in the way of progress and increased security should be moved out of the way. No need for shaming or deep dives, just move the ship forward.
The crucial point is that the people who can work on the kernel now itself are
- c people who don’t know rust yet
- c people who know rust well
The moment we get rust in there, the people who can work on the kernel reliably as a whole are
- c people who know rust well
That’s a much smaller group than the one above.
Here’s the point: THE SAME ISSUE would arise if it were D, or some kind of compiled python, object-oriented bash static objects, if that existed; or anything. Whatever the other language was, it’d present the same risk.
Rust people: it’s not about you. It’s about splitting the codebase.
The rust people said they’d take ownership of the work for the bindings so C maintainers don’t have to. What’s the issue?
Unsurprising. You don’t have to follow Hector Martin on social media for very long to learn that he’s a petulant, indignant, self-righteous drama queen.
Sounds a lot like Linus Torvalds back in the day, just saying…
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There’s a lot of issues with Rust taking more and more of the kernel. I’d like to see the whole kernel transitioned to Rust, but the project can’t stand still for that amount of time. Unless someone is willing to take that on, I think it’s better that Rust “stay in it’s lane”, as gross as that sounds.
Damn, Linus really went out of his way to say:
How about you accept the fact that maybe the problem is you. You think you know better. But the current process works. It has problems, but problems are a fact of life. There is no perfect. However, I will say that the social media brigading just makes me not want to have anything at all to do with your approach. Because if we have issues in the kernel development model, then social media sure as hell isn’t the solution. The same way it sure as hell wasn’t the solution to politics. Technical patches and discussions matter. Social media brigading - no than\k you.
…but still fails to answer the question of “should we continue implementing kernel things in rust”.
Yes I read the whole thread and the lack of replies on his part were kind of infuriating
Marcan calls Torvalds for arbitration ; Torvalds delivers heated-up scolding instead ; Linux looses talent.
Torvalds sure is shit at managing humans
