Yes and no.

A lot of privacy threads focus on fantastical what-if scenarios that just never really come up. For the majority of Internet users, the biggest threat they would face comes from the adtech sector. Now most people aren’t going to understand what is collected in realtime as that’s usually company specific and usually encoded on the site/app, but standards are all open for anyone to read. Mostly this is going to come in the form of OpenRTB 2.6 (https://iabtechlab.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/OpenRTB-2-6_FINAL.pdf) or the Prebid library and its User ID Module (https://docs.prebid.org/dev-docs/modules/userId.html) with maybe some custom fields and VERY granular audience mapping.

Specific to that standard, 3.2.20 Object: User and 3.2.27 Object: EID and 3.2.28 Object: UID are the important ones, but honestly all of the information can be used in conjunction with other pieces. Now if you look through that info, you’ll notice you don’t really see that much. You’re real name isn’t present. Your email isn’t present. Your physical address isn’t present (although its likely your geo location info is accurate from the device object). The thing is that so many little bread crumbs exists and so many actors are mapping those bread crumbs that once human psychology is overlaid on top of it crazy amounts of information that was not collected can be inferred. People think info like “His name is John Smith” is important when really “This is device ID EA7583CD-A667-48BC-B806-42ECB2B48606” and the numerous IDs built from that or a dozen other things is what matters.

Just from that standard with enough data/time, its possible to determine your demographic/sociographic information. One could determine who you will vote for and political leanings, how much money you make, what your job is, your sexual orientation, etc. This is great if someone is trying to sell you Tide detergent, but its also really useful if you’re wanting to start a “grassroots” campaign to add/remove rights for specific citizens. It allows you to know where you can get a foothold for your legislation (Cambridge Analytica comes to mind). And these things are all easily verifiable from your browser. Without an adblocker, go browse the internet and keep track of how many 1x1 tracking pixels get dropped on you. Checkout what’s in your cookie store and what’s sitting in sessionStorage and localStorage.

So, I think groups like r/privacy focus a lot on sci-fi inspired dystopia, when instead they could be focused on more real world dystopia.

I haven’t been around these communities in a while, so I can’t really speak for /c/privacy as much as /r/privacy and other communities, but I’ve noticed far far far far too many posts which are blindly perfectionist, with no consideration of threat capabilities or their motivations. Privacy is futile without a realistic threat model, that’s how you get burned out solving non-problems and neglecting actual problems.

My threat model is largely just minimizing surveillance capitalism and avoiding basement-dweller neo-nazi stalkers from connecting any dots between my online personas and real life identity. Even for that, my measures are a bit excessive, but not to the point where I’m wasting much time or effort.

Daily reminder: “more private” and “more secure” are red flags. If you see or say these, without a very specific context, it’s the wrong attitude towards privacy and security. They’re not linear scales, they’re complex concepts. That’s why Tor Browser is excellent for my anonymity situation but atrociously insecure to anyone who is being personally targeted by malware (tl;dr monoculture ESR Firefox^[1]). That’s why Graphene is not automatically anti-privacy simply because it runs on a Google Pixel and Android-based OS. (Google is one of my main adversaries.) And I think this simplistic ‘broscience’ style of “[x] is better than [y], [z] is bad” discourse is harmful and leads people into ineffective approaches.

I rarely consider anything “too far” unless you’re doing something totally ineffective or duplicating effort, and not talking about redundancy. I think most people who say this are either the people who we need to be secure from or people who are ignorant to the threats. I’m not saying the same threats affect us all, but there’s always a possibility you could become a target through whistleblowing, protest, being attractive, pissing off a random stranger, etc. And usually by the time you are a target, it’s too late. Your information is already out there and it’s difficult to stop broadcasting more with all of the tracking systems in place all over.

It’s often not clinical paranoia that causes people to worry about security and/or privacy, primarily it’s a desire for a minimal amount of privacy, hiding from predators, and/or basic protection from fascist regimes of various strengths that have taken over most governments. Often keeping a little privacy also is the best way to prevent becoming a target in the first place.

There are probably some people that go too far, but that is true in any community. There are also people with a very legitimate threat model, for example if they are from insert your favourite dictatorship here and they have insert opinion against said regime

I must be one of those. This shit is not okay, yall. Whole psychological profiles, humiliation tactics, and dystopian forms of control are right around the corner. Why would they keep Epstein alive when Palantir automated the job of the blackmail broker?

As long as everyone is having fun, I see no problem.

If you’re not having fun switching mail providers, researching Gecko forks, or being a part-time sysadmin for your Fairphone, you should probably stop doing those things.

I have been thinking about this a lot recently. I live a life where OPSEC is relevant. Its something that I have had to consider always, and has been for 2 decades. Even so, I wasn’t as concerned this whole time as I am these days. The fact is that technology is making it such that its no longer “im not a person of interest they wont spend resources on me” because data crunching is happening to such an extreme, on such a grand scale, that person of interest doesn’t even matter. Do you exist, yes. Do you have a digital foot print, yes you do. Even if you dont do a lot online. Your metrics are being captured and being inferenced, and systems are using predictive analysis to determine what you “may” do in a given situation. Depending on who controls those systems they may decide not to give you a chance to make that choice.

Ill I can say is that there are a large number of groups that want your data, for a lot of different reasons, and none of them are for your benefit. So, are you going to let them have it, or are you going to take steps to reign in the amount of info you leave about?

A few weeks ago, I would have said 100%. I am needlessly careful.

I know I’m protecting against privacy threats that are technically possible, but unlikely. Preventing the tracking is just an interesting hobby, to me.

But earlier this month, we learned that Meta went “all-in” on what I consider some fucked up shit - running a mini localhost server to track the vanishingly few people who bother to block their tracking.

So now I guess I’m only about 30% sure I’m being needlessly careful.

While certainly some people take it to a point that could be considered too far, I think that the reality is that you have to go very far if you want actual privacy today. I think most people either don’t know all the ways that their daily lives are being tracked and their activities are sold or they simply don’t care. To vast majority, doing anything that isn’t trivial is probably too far, and the more you talk about it with them, the more they will think it’s crazy. Most people of the older generation probably don’t “get it” or think it can be real, and very young people have probably never known privacy in their lives to much degree, so it can be a tough sell. I think Late Gen-X and Millienials are the main group that got to experience privacy when they were young and then saw it slowly eroded away in increasingly gross ways until it was gone.

Like most things on the internet it’s a game of one-upsmanship. User X uses Firefox with Incognito. User Y say’s that isn’t good enough for his own inconsistent definition of “good enough.”
So User-Y suggests Firefox with 14 different add-ons and only browse through an immutable VM. But then user-z comes along and says that if you are using windows at all, you don’t really care about privacy, so you should be using Icefox on some obscure fork of ubuntu through an immutable VM, with a pi-hole.
Then user-w says well if you aren’t using a VPN none of this matters, so Obviously you need to rent an Alibaba cloud server hosted in China, that you only connect to through a privacy respecting VPN, and then you only browse through TOR.

And so on. By the time a user is asking about how to stop google ads, the only “serious” answer by the community involves using Packet over Ham-radio -> and spending thousands of dollars a month on 4 different cloud providers, rented through several shell companies set up in Switzerland, the Cayman Islands and China, while only typing in Esperanto using an ASCII-only font.

A year ago: yes.

Today: nope.

https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/2501:_Average_Familiarity

Relevant XKCD;

I feel that it is closer to the fact that the communities forgot most beginners are completely new to this in general. They might not even know what exactly a ‘browser’ is, much less cookies and stuff.

Hence when we try to spoonfeed them information, it comes off as overwhelming and forced.

Agree that there are some extremist, but they mostly act in good faith tbh.

Another thing I noticed is there are more preachers of ‘how’ than ‘why’. Having a beginner go down the route of privacy without giving them a purpose to do so is quite off-putting.

Of course some people go too far. I think a lot of folks on here grossly overestimate / overstate their threat model, but I think the discussions are good for the limited few who really do need to cover their asses.

Me personally, I hate the idea of companies bidding for my attention without my consent, so I try and make it as hard as possible for them to get it. This just so happens to overlap nicely with the goals of the privacy community much of the time.

I dunno, considering that Facebook data has been used to go after people, we’ve got fascists using every method possible to target their current hated group, and police everywhere ignoring or bypassing due process by just buying data, I don’t think it all paranoid to think that privacy concerns are already huge, and could get worse

It’s just a conscious approach to tech.