Seems like you can’t disable from the web? I’ve never used a Gmail app, always used via imap. Fucking hate having to download an app to turn this off. Not my primary email address, but it is my secondary. Should change that…
I’m not seeing where any of this gives Google permission to train AI using your data. As far as I can see it’s all about using AI to manage your data, which is a completely different thing. The word “training” appears to originate in Dave Jones’ tweet, not in any of the Google pages being quoted. Is there any confirmation that this is actually happening, and not just a social media panic?
Not that I’ve seen, no.
I would opt out just in case. I remember using Adobe Acrobat at work and noticed they read every single PDF and generate a few comments about it even when you never asked them to. Meaning they‘re scanning through potentially confidential data. I have no doubts Google will do the same sooner or later.
Understand that basically ANYTHING that “uses AI” is using you for training data.
At its simplest, it is the old fashioned A/B testing where you are used as part of a reinforcement/labeling pipeline. Sometimes it gets considerably more bullshit as your very queries and what would make you make them are used to “give you a better experience” and so forth.
And if you read any of the EULAs (for the stuff that google opted users into…) you’ll see verbiage along those lines.
Of course, the reality is that google is going to train off our data regardless. But that is why it is a good idea to decouple your life from google as much as possible. It takes a long ass time but… no better time than today.
Understand that basically ANYTHING that “uses AI” is using you for training data.
No, that’s not necessarily the case. A lot of people don’t understand how AI training and AI inference work, they are two completely separate processes. Doing one does not entail doing the other, in fact a lot of research is being done right now trying to make it possible to do both because it would be really handy to be able to do them together and it can’t really be done like that yet.
And if you read any of the EULAs
Go ahead and do so, they will have separate sections specifically about the use of data for training. Data privacy is regulated by a lot of laws, even in the United States, and corporate users are extremely picky about that sort of stuff.
If the checkbox you’re checking in the settings isn’t explicitly saying “this is to give permission to use your data for training” then it probably isn’t doing that. There might be a separate one somewhere, it might just be a blanket thing covered in the EULA, but “tricking” the user like that wouldn’t make any sense. It doesn’t save them any legal hassle to do it like that.
A lot of people don’t understand how AI training and AI inference work, they are two completely separate processes.
Yes, they are. Not sure why you are bringing that up.
For those wondering what the actual difference is (possibly because they don’t seem to know):
At a high level, training is when you ingest data to create a model based on characteristics of that data. Inference is when you then apply a model to (preferably new) data. So think of training as “teaching” a model what a cat is, and inference as having that model scan through images for cats.
And a huge part of making a good model is providing good data. That is, generally speaking, done by labeling things ahead of time. Back in the day it was paying people to take an amazon survey where they said “hot dog or no hot dog”. These days… it is “anti-bot” technology that gets that for free (think about WHY every single website cares what is a fire hydrant or a bicycle…)
But that is ALSO just simple metrics like “Did the user use what we suggested”. Instead of saying “not hot dog” it is “good reply” or “no reply” or “still read email” or “ignored email” and so forth.
And once you know what your pain points are with TOTALLY anonymized user data, you can then “reproduce” said user data to add to your training set. Which is the kind of bullshit facebook, allegedly, has done for years where they’ll GLADLY delete your data if you request it… but not that picture of you at the McDonald’s down the street because that belongs to Ronjon Buck who worked there one summer. But they’ll gladly anonymize your user data so the picture of you actually just corresponds to “User 25156161616” that happens to be the sibling of your sister and so forth…
in fact a lot of research is being done right now trying to make it possible to do both because it would be really handy to be able to do them together and it can’t really be done like that yet.
That is literally just a feedback loop and is core to pretty much any “agentic” network/graph.
Go ahead and do so, they will have separate sections specifically about the use of data for training. Data privacy is regulated by a lot of laws, even in the United States, and corporate users are extremely picky about that sort of stuff.
There also tend to be laws about opting in and forced EULA agreements. It is almost like the megacorps have acknowledged that they’ll just do whatever and MAYBE pay a fee after they have made so much more money already.
Yes, they are. Not sure why you are bringing that up.
I am bringing it up because the setting Google is presenting only describes using AI on your data, not training AI on your data.
Wait, wait. You want me to suspend reality and believe that Google isn’t doing anything super shady at all here just because they said they totally aren’t? bro, bro…BRUH!!
If you believe that Google’s just going to brazenly lie about what they’re doing, what’s the point of changing the settings at all then?
In fact, Google is subject to various laws and they’re subject to concerns by big corporate customers, both of which could result in big trouble if they end up flagrantly and wilfully misusing data that’s supposed to be private. So yes, I would tend to believe that if the feature doesn’t say the data is being used for training I tend to believe that. It at least behooves those who claim otherwise to come up with actual evidence of their claims.
Did I miss the part where they link how to opt out?
Edit: Instructions
Be aware that disabling this also disables categories in your email. It really sucks that they tied those together. But I need to get away from gmail anyway…
I just opted out of Gmail
On the web UI they sneakily slide in the Gemini icon exactly where the settings icon is after about 2 seconds of loading the page which caught me out for the first account I was updating. Really annoying.
I logged into my GMail account for the first time in years due to this (I normally just use it as an IMAP server.) The “smart features” were already turned off.
It would certainly be nice if we could have sources of information about these kinds of privacy issues that didn’t lie their asses off constantly to create hysteria, but I guess that’s too much to ask for.
Glad I have uBlock installed so at least this site didn’t get any ad revenue from me.
It was already on for me I had to disable it. I appreciate the warning.
I for one won’t opt out because the only thing I get is spam and work shit. Go ahead train the AI off spam. The vast majority of emails are spam.
Yeah my gmail is mostly for spam. I dont get any real emails to it.
I’m honestly kinda surprised that Google is apparently not in fact doing this already and (according to the comments here) continues to not do so.
I already disabled all that “smart” crap years ago.
Does anyone have a good in depth guide on how to de-google? My ultimate goal is to not use Google at all and use Graphene OS on my Pixel
Sucks that they focus solely on google produced phones though.
Right? I hate how there’s like no options for phone OS
They’re working with another OEM to get a phone out with their security requirements
That’s what the consumers collectively wanted. Whether they knew it, or not.
That isnt how it works. We may have preferred others if they had been better, we were not given that option. I would prefer if windows phones existed as an alternative but they had very limited third party support.
Consumers couldnt take a phone where all their apps would not work.
Growing an ecosystem takes time. I’ve been using open source software since 1980s. Now I can use open source on tablets and phones. All my apps work because they’re open source.
The ecosystem would be now even better if more people would have put their choices that way. They didn’t. That was a choice, whether they realized it or not.
Yes and no. I support foss and am trying slowly to move myself. I would love a linux phone but supports are not in place to have a similar experience. Banking apps and app availability and feature parity are barriers. Consumers would move to something new if it filled their needs, see blackberry to iphone.
I hate microsoft so I dont care that they lost but they didnt give it enough time to build for sure, but you had huge apps like snapchat saying they wouldn’t build for their phone. This is limiting exposure.
The fact is moving out of tbe established duopoly is more akin to choosing not to have a device then it is choosing a competitor, it may aswell be a palm pilot you move to in some instances.
There’s no guide since everyone’s use case is different, and 100% is only obtainable if you avoid all tech. GrapheneOS or buy an iPhone are the best options. I went the grapheneos route, but I still use google play services as I found its the safest way to still get apps for now, and the disconnect from google is still much more than using stock android. I moved email to proton, maps I use OsmAnd.
Oh nice. Can you still install banking/credit card apps with Graphene? I’ve heard it can be a pain in the ass to get around
I don’t use any banking apps, but from what I’ve seen on forums it can be hit or miss depending on the bank. I only use their webpages. If my bank required an app, I’d find a different bank.
I think it depends on the bank
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLR_ghQEN2SgB5ZpiIIzlJvtXhXHfEf1M7
TheHatedOne on YT has some good resources
You can also find degoogle lists with alternatives for each app, e.g. here: https://git.tycrek.com/archive/degoogle
My advice to you is to take one step at a time, explore at your own pace. It’s easy to get overwhelmed, but IMO each step is beneficial on its own. E.g. instead of moving to Proton.me in one night (or any other email provider), first start by forwarding the emails and see if you’re ok with the product
I deleted Gmail I won’t go there ever again
So what you’re saying is that all of Epsteins emails are going to be used to train Gemini? Interesting……
