• Wispy2891@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    82
    ·
    7 months ago

    The headline doesn’t match the article, but indeed onlyoffice it’s not real open source.

    In my language onlyoffice has several typos. Went to GitHub to submit a PR and… there are no translations to translate.

    I open an issue and they tell me to send the fixes to someone by email. I send them, they are ignored and 5 years later it’s still with the annoying typos.

    This is a program where they pretend to be open only for marketing but they aren’t actually open

      • RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        7 months ago

        As soon as Writer allows for a static standard scroll bar that doesn’t auto-hide, I will. Call me irrational, but I cannot use an application based around scrolling with no real scroll bar.

        • tackleberry@thelemmy.club
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          7 months ago

          You can use “pg up” and “pg dn” to scroll. That’s what I use and it also helps that my laptop has a touchscreen so I have no complaints about scrolling around my work in LibreOffice

          • RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            7 months ago

            I’ll try those keys. But when you have a document with multiple chapters, the actual buttons on a scroll bar that is full width and static are pretty critical. Not everyone uses it for TPS reports.

            And why the hell does a desktop app need a mobile scroll anyway. Jesus Fuck, just give me the extra 5 pixels you psychopath.

      • LumpyPancakes@piefed.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        7 months ago

        I use OnlyOffice for PDFs since it can set a default zoom level. LibreOffice can’t, which it just stupid.

        I use LibreOffice for other stuff though.

        • tackleberry@thelemmy.club
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          7 months ago

          you can get a dedicated PDF viewer. I use my system PDF viewer and it works better than Adobe PDF I have been using for ages. This one actually makes reading PDFs bearable in the dark

          • sonofearth@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            7 months ago

            Even your web browser is a decent PDF reader. Also LibreOffice Draw shows PDF pretty well and you can also edit it to some extent.

  • nyan@lemmy.cafe
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    55
    ·
    7 months ago

    Pretty noticeable that Gentoo Linux doesn’t offer an option to compile OnlyOffice locally—it’s only available as a -bin package, which means that it’s precompiled by upstream. That tells me that either the available source is too incomplete to actually compile the software from, or it has some really strange licensing. Either way, it can’t be open-source software in the accepted sense.

  • MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    29
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    7 months ago

    Since it’s related and the original is now offline and has only two too late captures, i’ll just drop here my capture of FSFE’ stance on OOXML back then


    MS-OOXML: a pseudo-standard that pretends to be open

    Since the very beginning of the standardisation process for Microsoft’s Office Open XML - OOXML (hereinafter MS-OOXML), the FSFE has expressed serious doubts about whether MS-OOXML could be considered as open, if even, as a standard at all.
    The FSFE first raised the issue in the community and led the movement against the standardisation of MS-OOXML, following closely over the years the relevant developments.
    But why can MS-OOXML still not be considered an Open Standard, despite its approval by international standards organisations?

    What is Microsoft’s OOXML?

    MS-OOXML is an XML-based format for office documents developed by Microsoft.
    It covers word processing documents, spreadsheets, presentations, charts, diagrams, shapes, and other graphical material.
    MS-OOXML was first adopted in 2006 by ECMA International - a private international standards organisation - allegedly as an Open Standard.
    In 2008, the International Standards Organisation (ISO) also approved the MS-OOXML, as international Open Standard under the ISO/IEC 29500, after Microsoft requested fast-track process.
    ISO approved the standard despite the fact that it was initially rejected, due to a big number of justified concerns expressed by its national member bodies.

    How did we get there?

    In 2001 a collective effort started to create an open document format, promoting Open Standards and trying to limit Microsoft’s office software monopoly.
    The result of this effort which lasted four years, was the Open Document Format v1.0 (ODF), implemented with Free Software.
    It was first approved in 2006 as an OASIS Standard and later, by ISO/IEC JTC1 as an International Standard, under the code ISO/IEC 26300:2006.
    Such a format could threaten Microsoft’s dominant position in the Document market, which at the time ran on closed formats.
    Under the fear of losing its power, the latter produced its own allegedly open document through a dubious ISO approval process.
    As it can be imagined, the “new” format seemed in a first vote unnecessary to the ISO working group since there was already an existing document standard -ODF- and was, therefore, rejected.
    However, Microsoft, in a more political than technical process, got its proposal fast-tracked even though specific clauses of it still met resistance from the national member bodies.
    And this is the point in the revision process, where a suggestion came on the table, to create two sub-standards of MS-OOXML, namely ISO 29500 Transitional and ISO 29500 Strict.
    Here is what happened: the Strict version got accepted by ISO, while the Transitional version was granted to Microsoft, allowing it to exclude certain legacy features and facilitating conversion from the older closed-source binary formats.
    ISO then gave its approval to MS-OOXML in 2008, and justified its decision by claiming that the market needed another document standard.
    It is noteworthy that Microsoft did not have, at the time of the approval, an available version of Microsoft Office that would be compliant to the ISO/IEC standard it has just passed.
    That was the result of the multiple changes on the original version of the standard in order for the approval process to move forward.
    Consequently, although the older binary formats (.doc, xls, and .ppt) continued to be supported by Microsoft, MS-OOXML became the default standard of all Microsoft Office documents (.docx, .xlsx, and .pptx), starting with Microsoft Office 2007.
    Nevertheless, MS-OOXML Transitional is the only variant in widespread use and this is a note to keep in mind: those dual requirements led to a situation where one standard exists, and another format is fully implemented and spread all around, despite just having the status of an undocumented, proprietary specification.
    In other words, something that started as an intent to enable a transitional period was turned into a norm, setting obstacles to any interoperability claims.
    At a glance, Microsoft Office 2010 provides read-support for ECMA-376, read/write-support for ISO/IEC 29500 Transitional, and read support for ISO/IEC 29500 Strict.
    Microsoft Office 2013 and Microsoft Office 2016 additionally support both reading and writing of ISO/IEC 29500 Strict.
    However, in all of them, the default option is the transitional one, meaning that the strict standard is still not used in practice, unless the users change the default settings ad hoc.

    Is MS-OOXML a true open standard?

    Although many people share the assumption that some widely used formats can be identified as Open Standards, there is a number of them that does not comply with the criteria listed in the Open Standards definition.
    MS-OOXML is one of them, the so-called pseudo-standards.

    Dual Standards

    As first objection, MS-OOXML could be seen as unnecessary.
    Software engineers could instead use Open Document Format (ODF), as a less complicated office software format that was already an international standard at the time of the MS-OOXML review process, is also built upon XML technology and has the same theoretical capabilities.
    Microsoft itself is a member of OASIS, the organisation in which the ODF standard was developed and where it is being maintained.
    Microsoft was aware of the whole process and was invited to participate, but allegedly refused to do so, although it could have submitted its technological proposals to OASIS for inclusion into ODF.
    Having two overlapping standards for the same thing creates only further burden and confusion, and can be detrimental for competition.

    Compatibility and interoperability

    One of the alledged main advantages of MS-OOXML was its ability to allow for backward compatibility.
    However, in practice MS-OOXML seems to be compatible only with Microsoft documents, whilst its interoperability with products from other vendors appears to have been made extremely complicated by design.
    This is also related to the fact that MS-OOXML was initially designed to be compatible with existing Microsoft closed formats, in comparison to ODF, which was designed with the aim to achieve document interoperability.

    Supporting pre-existing Open Standards

    Whenever applicable and possible, standards should build upon previous standardisation efforts and not depend on proprietary, vendor-specific technologies.
    Albeit, MS-OOXML neglects various standards and uses its own vendor-specific formats instead.
    This puts a substantial burden on all vendors to fully implement MS-OOXML.
    It seems questionable how any third party could ever implement them equally well, especially when a standard comes with 6000 pages of specifications without serving its minimalistic purpose.

    Proprietary extensions

    Proprietary, application-specific extensions are a known technique employed in standardisation by vendors to abuse monopoly.
    Abusive behaviour was at the core of the decision against Microsoft by the European Commission in 2004.
    For this reason, it is common understanding that Open Standards should not allow such proprietary extensions, and that such market-distorting techniques should not be possible on the grounds of an Open Standard.

    Application independence

    Standards should not depend on certain operating systems, environments or applications, since application and implementation independence is one of the most important characteristics of all standards.
    Nevertheless, MS-OOXML includes references to particular Microsoft products.

    Conclusion

    MS-OOXML Strict does not serve its purpose as Open Standard.
    It was deliberately never implemented, to allow its transitional proprietary version to gain more ground as a default format for MS Office and to keep people locked in to proprietary solutions.
    See what you can do about it.

    Further reading

    FSFE Context Briefing: Interoperability woes with MS-OOXML
    FSFE Context Briefing: DIS-29500: Deprecated before use?
    Six questions to national standardisation bodies

    External links of interest

    Article on Groklaw: Novell’s “Danaergeschenk”
    Article on BBC: Questions for Microsoft on open formats
    Article on Heise.de: The converter hoax
    OOXML Abuse Index
    Originalartikel

  • varyingExpertise@feddit.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    17
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    7 months ago

    I’m reading all these comments and I guess no one here works outside of academia or 100% IT companies.

    Reality out there is, that O365 is so deeply integrated with other business related software, that it’s never going away. My company uses an ERP system that has maybe 200 customers worldwide. It is highly specialized for what we do. There is zero financial incentive for the manufacturer to support any other ecosystem. So they won’t.

    • Bazoogle@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      7 months ago

      The financial incentive would be open and standard document format to ease development and provide reliability

      • varyingExpertise@feddit.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        7 months ago

        What they have is already done developing and they are flush in cash. A company that creates an ERP for a specialized industry does not care, unless a huge chunk of their customers demand a change all at once AND are ready to pay for it. I mean, I understand the idealism but this is just one of those “if everybody just…” situations that, imho, holds back open source solutions because their defendants look a bit excentric from established businesses’ points of view.