I have a 56 TB local Unraid NAS that is parity protected against single drive failure, and while I think a single drive failing and being parity recovered covers data loss 95% of the time, I’m always concerned about two drives failing or a site-/system-wide disaster that takes out the whole NAS.
For other larger local hosters who are smarter and more prepared, what do you do? Do you sync it off site? How do you deal with cost and bandwidth needs if so? What other backup strategies do you use?
(Sorry if this standard scenario has been discussed - searching didn’t turn up anything.)
Personally I deal with it by prioritizing the data.
I have about the same total size Unraid NAS as you, but the vast majority is downloaded or ripped media that would be annoying to replace, but not disastrous.
My personal photos, videos and other documents which are irreplaceable only make up a few TB, which is pretty managable to maintain true local and cloud backups of.
Not sure if that helps at all in your situation.
I have data that I actually care about in RAIDZ1 array with a hot standby and it is syched to the cloud. The rest (the vast majority) is in a RAIDZ5. If I lose it, I “lose” it. Its recoverable if I decide I want it again.
Backup to 2nd nas.
Important stuff gets backed up to cloud storage. Whatever is cheapest.
In my case Synology c2 cloud was cheapest.
c2 seems expensive, I would go with hetzner storage box + restic
It offers some other features like hybrid access to data,If my nas isn’t available I can access it from their cloud. There’s also some identity services.
I’m not sure if I qualify as a ‘larger local hoster’ but I would go through your 20 TB and decide what really is important enough to backup in case the wheels fall off. Linux ISOs, those can be re-downloaded, although it would take a bit of time. The things that can’t be readily downloaded such as my music collection that I have been accumulating for decades, converted to flac, and meticulously tagged, can’t be re-downloaded. So that is one of my priorities to back up. Pictures, business documents, personal documents, can’t be re-downloaded, so that goes on the ‘must back up’ list…and so on. Just cull out what is and isn’t replaceable. I would bet that once you do that, your 20 TB will be a bit more slim, and you’re not trying to push 20TB up the pipe to a cloud backup.
I use BackBlaze’s Personal, unlimited tier for $99 USD per year, which is a pretty sweet deal. One thing about Backblaze to remember is that the drives being backed up must be physically connected to the PC doing the backup/uploading. I get around that because I have a hot swap bay on my main PC, but there are other methods and software that will masquerade your NAS or other as a physically connected drive.
I use backblaze too, started with the personal back up, but swapped to the B2 solution as it was supported by my NAS. The cost of the actual storage isn’t much, most of the cost is in access, so for data that doesn’t alter much it worked out just as cheap, and easier to do things that way.
and easier to do things that way.
I’m cheap and my labor is free. LOL But you do have a point.
Well, first while raid is great, it’s not a replacement for backups. Raid is mostly useful if uptime is imperative, but does not protect against user errors, software errors, fs corruption, ransomware or a power surge killing the entire array.
Since uptime isn’t an issue on my home nas, instead of parity I simply have cold backups which (supposedly) I plug in from time to time to scrub the filesystems.
If a online drive dies I can simply restore it from backup and accept the downtime. For my anime I have simply one single backup, but or my most important files I have 2 backups just in case one fails. (Unfornately both onsite)
On the other hand, for a client of mine’s server where uptime is imperative, in addiction to raid I have 2 automatic daily backups (which ideally one should be offsite but isn’t, at least they are in different floors of the same building).
entire nas (~24TB used) is replicated to another nas in another building (2 actually). i like having 3 copies.
Lto tape. But I only have 15tb
It quickly becomes cost effective when you actually need the data to be safe. Far easier to have off site backups. I have never had a problem , but I like to have offline backup. Most of the time my data is static. So I am only backing up projects files ans changes for the most part.
If you have 40+ tb of dynamic data I can’t help there.
Edit: I buy used drives that are usually 2 generations old, so I got lto-5 drives when lto 7 was new. The used drives may be less reliable but used drives can be 1/10th the price of the newest ones.
I’ve been following this post since the first comment.
And I have just put together my own RAID1 1TB NAS. And I did not think that 1TB will serve me forever, more like “a good start”.
But the numbers I’ve been seeing in here… you guys are nuts 😆
I have 3 main NASes
78TB (52TB usable) hot storage. ZFS1
160TB (120TB) warm storage ZFS2
48TB (24TB) off site. ZFS mirror
I rsync every day from hot to off site.
And once a month I turn on my warm storage and sync it.
Warm and hot storage is at the same location.
Off site storage is with a family friend who I trust. Data isn’t encrypted aside from in transit. That’s something else I’d like to mess with later.
Core vital data is sprinkled around different continents with about 10TB. I have 2 nodes in 2 countries for vital data. These are with family.
I think I have 5 total servers.
Cost is a lot obviously, but pieced together over several years.
The world will end before my data gets destroyed.
But would your data survive a nearby gamma-ray burst?
Recently helped someone get set up with backblaze B2 using Kopia, which turned out fairly affordable. It compresses and de-duplicates leading to very little storage use, and it encrypts so that Backblaze can’t read the data.
Kopia connects to it directly. To restore, you just install Kopia again and enter the same connection credentials to access the backup repository.
My personal solution is a second NAS off-site, which periodically wakes up and connects to mine via VPN, during that window Kopia is set to update my backups.
Kopia figures out what parts of the filesystem has changed very quickly, and only those changes are transferred over during each update.
The Backblaze option is something I’ve seriously considered.
Any reason this person didn’t go with the $99/year personal backup plan? It says “unlimited” and it is for my household only, but maybe I’m missing something about how difficult it is to setup on Unraid or other NAS software. B2’s $6/TB/mo rate would put me at $150/mo which is not great.
They only needed about 500GB.
And personal is for desktop systems. You have to use Backblazes macOS/Windows desktop application, and the setup is not zero-knowledge on Backblazes part. They literally advertise being able to ship you your files on a physical device if need be.
Which some people are ok with, but not what most of us would want.
You can ship encrypted files you know……?
Yes. That’s not mutually exclusive with Backblaze having access to your backups.
Them having access to them is irrelevant if they’re encrypted. What’s the issue?
You can do that with B2. Just use an application to upload that encrypts as it uploads.
The only way to achieve the same on the backup plan (because you have to use their desktop app) is to always have your entire system encrypted and never decrypt anything while the desktop app is performing a backup.
Did you not read what I said? You use their app, which copies files from your system as-is. Ensuring it never grabs a cleartext file is not practical.
That doesn’t mean it’s not encrypted on their servers……
Like others, I have a 2 tier system.
About 2TB of my (Synology) NAS is critical files. Those get sent via Hyperbackup to cloud storage on at least a weekly basis, some daily. I have them broken up into multiple tasks with staggered schedules so it never has much to do on any given day.
The other 16TB I have get sync’d (again with hyperbackup, but not a scheduled backup task) to a 20TB external drive roughly once per quarter. Then that drive lives on the closet of a family member.
Backblaze offers unlimited data on a single computer, $99/year.
There might be some fine print that excludes your setup but might be worth investigating.
only windows (maybe mac)
Wine or there is a Docker container that runs the Backblaze client.
Oh shit.
As someone who has experienced double failure twice in my lifetime, I seriously recommend doing backups.
The problem is that the only serious backup solution is another HDD for this size. A robot array for tapes or worm drives is probably out of budget.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I’ve seen in this thread:
Fewer Letters More Letters Git Popular version control system, primarily for code HTTP Hypertext Transfer Protocol, the Web HTTPS HTTP over SSL NAS Network-Attached Storage RAID Redundant Array of Independent Disks for mass storage SSD Solid State Drive mass storage SSL Secure Sockets Layer, for transparent encryption VNC Virtual Network Computing for remote desktop access VPN Virtual Private Network ZFS Solaris/Linux filesystem focusing on data integrity
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What’s your recovery needs?
It’s ok to take 6 months to backup to a cloud provider, but do you need all your data to be recovered in a short period of time? If so, cloud isn’t the solution, you’d need a duplicate set of drives nearby (but not close enough for the same flood, fire, etc.
But, if you’re ok waiting for the data to download again (and check the storage provider costs for that specific scenario), then your main factor is how much data changes after that initial 1st upload.
Sorry. Shortly after posting this and the initial QA I left for a trip.
I could definitely wait those time periods for a first backup and a restore, since I assume it’ll be a once in 10 year at worst situation. Data changes after the first upload should be show enough to keep up.
No worries, I don’t have a time limit on responses 😉
But… I took somethong like ~3 days to get an initial baxkup done.
Then ~3 years later I was at a different provider doing the same thing.
What I did do differently was to split the data into different backup pools (ie photos, music, work, etc) rather than 1 monolithic pool… that’ll make a difference.
That does make sense - also matches how I have currently sperated files so it’s a valuable idea. Thanks!
I have a 120TB unraid server at home, and a 40TB unraid server at work. Both use 2 x parity disks.
The critical work stuff backs up to home, and the critical home stuff backs up to work.
The media is disposable.
Both servers then back up to Crashplan on separate accounts - work uses the Australian server on a business account, home used the US server on a personal account.
I figure I should be safe unless Australia and the US are nuked simultaneously… At which point my data integrity is probably not the most pressing issue.
