I mean- anything that communicates wirelessly could be used to track an owner/user of a thing… Is it likely? No, but is it possible someone puts radios under the pavement at intersections to log TPMS sensors? Sure- fuck now I’m messing with my own head. Never mind.
Wait till you see how many Bluetooth devices still do this. Or better yet, Ant+.
Fuck Cars, but also,my TPMS has always been me running around the car with a gauge before a roadtrip. Imagine my surprise when I find that my car has TPMPs, it just doesn’t show pressures, just the tire icon.
License Plates, Vin Numbers clearly available on the dash, Tire Sensors, Bluetooth MAC, WIFI MAC, Cellular IDs for most even if you don’t pay for the service.
It’s an interesting thing to point out, but we’re mostly driving around with much higher power sensors than the pressure sensors.
So far I have had success in getting my new car unable to blast out all sorts of uniquely identifiable RF except for this TPMS thing. Does anyone have suggestions on how to deal with this one? Is there maybe a specific brand of sensors that doesn’t send out beacons like this once already paired?
They’re operating on a standard and they’re federally mandated since 2007. It is likely possible to remove them, but it’s going to f with your other safey systems and leave errors all over your dash.
Dude, my car has GPS and a 4G internet connection as well as my android phone and my work required iPhone … In a world like this, Tyre sensors are probably not required to track me.
On the other hand, my 21 year old vehicle has none of it, and my GrapheneOS phone isn’t tracking me either. We didn’t all just give up like you did.
I spoke with my landlord about removing power to the home security cameras, because they were Ring. He obliged my request, but I later discovered that he (in private) regards my preference as that of a rebellious teenager in need of a cause. I had to let that sink in… I’m a rebel without a cause because I don’t sip from the same koolaid as he does. Wow.
Maybe I should’ve paid >10.000 in spares plus labour for a car I originally spend 21.000 for 8 years ago to buy diesel for for about 2€ per liter rather than switching to an ev for the privilege of ne being tracked rather than “giving up”.
I assume your old vehicle also doesn’t have any type pressure sensors?
You can bask in the glory of knowing that you’re better than anyone else. I myself aren’t paranoid enough to really care.
Jokes on them, those tire pressure sensors are the first thing I don’t replace. I just visually check my tires and put a pressure gauge on them if they look suspect.
Or just replace your tyres with ones with non sensor.
That said it is a little annoying. My dash is forever telling me it can’t talk to the tyres.
A local city proudly mentioned on the news that they had a system that could track TPMS sensors. Pretty much all cars after 2008 uses TPMS sensors that each broadcast a unique identifier to the car. They aren’t hard to remove, and you can buy valve stems that fit your car (0.452 hole) at any auto parts store.
EDIT: The sheer amount of replies to this post days later that basically state “This is too hard to do, and it won’t work anyway, so you are stupid to try and shouldn’t do it”, all from people who clearly have no real idea how the TPMS system on a car works, have confirmed for me that I was correct in spending a half hour removing these devices.
By “aren’t hard to remove” you actually mean requires dismounting the tire from the rim, remounting it, and then balacing it. This is far beyond the capabilities not to mention equipment of the typical layperson. Plus, your state is likely to conveniently fail your car on its next inspection for a nonfunctioning TPMS system, same as your check engine light.
If you’re going to go the distance anyway, get your tire shop to mount aftermarket Autel sensors in your rims. Using the readily available diagnostic tool, you can occasionally reprogram those (wirelessly!) with a set of random IDs and then also program your car to use them. You’ll be a lot tougher to track if your signature is different every week.
I’m not about to do this just yet, but I do have the tool for more mundane purposes and I only paid around $200 for it several years ago.
It seems most states with mandatory vehicle inspections don’t fail for TPMS problems.
https://www.tirerack.com/upgrade-garage/what-are-state-tpms-regulations
That only lists 18 states…
My own state requires it despite that list implying they don’t. Thus I really don’t think that chart is completely accurate. If you have ANY warning lights on your dash at inspection you will be failed here.
I did say most, not all. Some of the info on that page may be outdated, but obviously it would just be limited to those that require regular comprehensive inspections in the first place.
I was able to easily look up the inspection guidelines from my states DMV page and confirm for myself that TPMS light is not a fail here so YMMV, but my point was essentially that it’s more likely than not that bad sensors won’t fail someone, not that nobody will get failed.
Well crap, that’s not a cheap solution but I’m glad you commented because I didn’t know these Autel sensors existed and that you could reprogram them. I mean, this threat is semi hypothetical right now (not like it’s been used in the wild by authorities or anything) but one day it might be. Continual reprogramming would be a valid solution.
Plus, your state is likely to conveniently fail your car on its next inspection
Your who is going to do what now?
(Posted from a state that doesn’t check anything except emissions, and even then only for some cars in some urban areas.)
Fuck that sounds like a place full of dangerously badly maintained vehicles…
Surprisingly, most people aren’t actually suicidally negligent in the absence of government regulation.
Eh. I’ve seen enough 300+ HP cars with 10+ year old bald tires and paper thin brake discs to believe otherwise. I personally know two people whose cars have broken wipers that simply don’t work. They don’t care. I know one guy whose car’s passenger door can only be opened by sticking the designated door opening pliers, which are stored under the seat, into the door panel through the hole of that door lock indicator peg thing and then fishing for some lever or whatever. You’re simply not gonna be opening that door in an emergency. One dude at my office has an old manual BMW with a shifter knob that just loosely sits on its lever, and can easily come off if you are not careful. Gotta blindly maneuver the knob back onto its spot underneath the leather cover when that happens. He drives it like that daily. No shortage of hideously dirty diesel engines. No shortage of badly misaligned headlights, nonfunctional brake lights, overly loud engines etc.
In short I not only think state inspections are a good idea, I even think they should be even stricter.
Survivorship bias
That is actually surprising, given people.
State inspections are a racket. This is coming from a state inspector. Waste of time and money! I only got certified so I can inspect my own and wife’s vehicles. Well that and it’s invaluable at work but shit if your determined to drive an unroadworthy POS the lack of a sticker on ur windshield and the possibility u MIGHT get a 50$ fine and no points is not enough to deter the idiots from driving rolling scrap heaps anyways. Seen em before and will continue to see em weather inspections are mandated or not.
It certainly doesn’t require removing the tire from the rim. I removed each wheel, broke the bead on the side that has the valve stem, pried the tire back away from the rim, remove the sensor (mine had a convenient little part you can push to release them) then air the tire back up and put the wheel back on the car. Didn’t even have to re-balance them.
If we want to take steps to protect ourselves from such tracking, we cannot afford to simply say “It’s ToO hArD!!!1!” with a multi-paragraph reply that took more time to type out than it took for me to remove one sensor. Can’t do it? Learn how. Defeatist replies belong on Reddit with all the other propaganda.
Do you drive around with no license plate on your car, too?
Hope y threw ur phone away and got rid of ur head unit while u were at it. Tpms tracking is just about the last fucking thing I’d ever worry about especially with the lack of range those transponders have. Nobody is tracking you via tpms 😂
You know that you can leave your phone at home, right?
EDIT: Also, another Defeatist reply.
I’m honestly not trying to be defeatist, I just want to convey how idiotic of a concern this is. You sensor id needs to be tied to the car somehow for it to be remotely useful, never mind the atrocious reception of them in the first place it’s just a non issue. And if u reprogram sensor ids, how will it know what vehicle just went by its radar? It would also need a camera to tie the plate or something else which means your already being surveyed. The concern that ur TPMS is going to be used to track you is just so idiotic I cannot fathom the stupidity of telling people to go out and remove their pressure sensors. Hopefully u don’t own any vehicle made after 2002 cuz good Lord when you find out about key transponders and radio frequency security keys ! Good luck deleting your immobilizer 😂😂😂
They aren’t hard to remove, and you can buy valve stems that fit your hole at any auto parts store.
Good to know.
O no. And this whole time I’ve been mailing my phone to my destination every time I have to drive somewhere so they can’t track me!
The bastards!
They discovered a thing that everyone’s known forever. Here’s Bruce Schneier in 2008
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/04/tracking_vehicl.html
Yep. I remember watching a documentary on how to disappear. Car tires and windshields were both covered, because they can contain traceable technology. This was a decade ago, at least.
Because each sensor broadcasts a fixed unique ID, the same car can be recognized repeatedly without reading a license plate. This makes TPMS-based tracking cheaper, harder to detect, and more difficult to avoid than camera-based surveillance, and therefore a stronger privacy threat.
This seems like a real stretch.
Cameras and automated license plate recognition are absurdly cheap at this point. And cameras have much greater range and reliability than whatever wireless signal interception this is, which the researchers have said is effective up to 50 meters.
Meanwhile, from the office where I sit (which happens to be more than 50 meters above street level), I can see a highway and read the license plates of all the cars maybe 100-300m away. Plug in a cheap phone as a simple webcam and I can probably log all the license plates that drive by, maybe even correlate that to makes and models of vehicles for redundancy.
And who’s going to detect that I’ve got a cell phone camera pointed out of my office window, or that I’m running that type of image recognition on the phone?
Flock in a few months: “introducing a license plate reader that doesn’t need to see the license plate. The magnet leaf you got on Amazon to get through red light cameras won’t be enough to fool our dystopian surveillance system anymore”
among the hundreds of other things that “could be tracking me”
at this point I wouldn’t be surprised if my inner most thoughts weren’t already uploaded to some giant government server.
James Brown, in his later years, believed he was being surveilled by electronic devices in his teeth. When we read “that’s a thing” next year and no one acts surprised you can forgive him his PCP usage.
My Wi-Fi also logs all the cars that pass that have built in WiFi. Kind of crazy how many ways cars can be tracked.
Jokes on them. My TPMS sensors died a while ago, and I haven’t felt the need to fix it.
Now I’m a ghost! /s
The rfid tag is probably still good and whatever is on the receiving end isn’t working.Apparently it’s an active system these days.
It seems that the system is not RFID or passive, but an active system that requires a battery to transmit data. It’s far more likely that the batteries, which typically lasts about the length of time I’ve owned my car, are just drained.
Theres a spy device in your pocket.
People that care about that have already controlled for that to the degree of their concern and/or ability. This is now one more door that needs to be locked.
Its good to remind people of the various ways they could be tracked as you have done, but I prefer to try to frame these challenges in ways that encourage taking whatever steps we can toward privacy goals, rather than give up and figuratively lay down and die.
I don’t think its productive to think in terms that diminish people’s efforts to try to maintain their privacy as best they can.
