The speed at which firefox has been enshittified is as impressive as it is sad.
…and we’ll all suffer as climate change increases. None of this shit is worth frying for.
Dont worry the US and Israel are starting WW3 as we speak we will all be dead before then any way
Donald Trump is the most environmentalist president ever. With oil prices as they are, can you imagine how much less oil we’re burning?
Setting fire to the oil fields, cutting out the middle men. That’s American efficiency.
Nah, it’s just imperialist billiards, big vs little.
It’s all part of “the great game” the west has been playing against Russia in the middle east for over a century… The middle east is where America does it’s proxy wars.
World wars are only a risk if a white western European country is attacked. Horrendous how those in power see the world, isn’t it?
So like Ukraine?
Awfully presumptuous of you to think Ukraine counts as white.
Do yourself a favour and use LibreWolf or WaterFox instead.
Or further favourable: Konform Browser.
Tor Browser and Mullvad Browser also worthy mentions.
Floorp is also good since it has PWAs
But it has a DuMb NaMe so I don’t like it 😡
Ai in browsers is stupid
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The generations that will grow up with AI will be fucked.
Eh. That’s something every single generation before us in at least the past 150 years has been saying about other new society-changing stuff. They’ll be fine, society just changes.
Generations that will grow up with social media will be fucked.
Generations that will grow up with internet will be fucked.
Generations that will grow up with video games will be fucked.
Generations that will grow up with computers will be fucked.
Generations that will grow up with morning-after pills will be fucked.
…
…
What about Cambridge Analytica, the mental health impacts, the addiction, … we’re still learning the social impact of social media — especially capitalistic social media. To pretend we aren’t is just plain ignorant, no? You can’t say people are fine when you don’t even know how they’ve been affected.
I’m not saying everything is lovely and we are at the peak of civilization. I’m saying that every form of progress comes with challenges and downsides, and this saying of “Next generation will be fucked” is a cognitive bias every generation has had for a pretty long time.
They also have positive sides.
I don’t know if I expressed myself that poorly (I was pretty tired after all), but I did not mean at all that there are no downsides to any of these. I meant that despite these sayings, every generation so far has ended up as fine as the previous ones.
I’m saying that every form of progress comes with challenges and downsides, and this saying of “Next generation will be fucked” is a cognitive bias every generation has had for a pretty long time.
Change is not necessarily progress.
I’m not talking about change, I’m talking about progress. Progress is not necessarily positive.
Generations that will grow up with morning-after pills will be fucked
I mean…
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And at least the first two were right.
Social media without limit has caused a whole slew of issues that are still being studied. And, while the early days of the internet were great, ever since at least the late 2010s, it’s been largely downhill.
Yeah, sorry but I have to disagree with you pretty hard there. Generations that grew up with social media, internet, video games, … they are fucked. We’ve been watching the fuckening for a long time now. Saying that they haven’t been fucked is reminiscent of my grandparents saying ADHD and Anxiety aren’t real.
Are they really more fucked than generations who didn’t have access to social media, internet, and video games? It seems to me that you are biased by the negative effects these had, and ignoring the positive ones.
Saying that they haven’t been fucked is reminiscent of my grandparents saying ADHD and Anxiety aren’t real.
How is that in any way comparable? I’m not saying the downsides of social media, internet, video games are not real, I’m saying “People growing up with X will be fucked” is a saying that every generation has been saying, ignoring the positive impacts. This is a cognitive bias in the likes of the rosy retrospection.
I don’t think so. First off, all the examples mentioned were computers, social media, video games, … these are all still pretty darn novel in the grand scheme of things. We still don’t know what happens to a society that doesn’t need to contend with boredom because they have algorithmically optimized content feeds jacking up their prefrontal cortex at all times of day and night. We still don’t understand the full extent to which walled garden social media ecosystems can influence politics and cultural bias, detriment democratic processes, or empower individuals. We still aren’t taking privacy seriously as a society, having relied for hundreds of years on the fact that complete and total surveillance systems is infeasible for a government. It’s far too early to say whether anyone is or isn’t fucked by any of this, which is why I draw comparisons to grandmama saying “back in my day, the boy was just excited. He didn’t have ‘ADHD.’ He was fine.” It’s about ignorance when new information comes to light.
We have a lot of reason to believe there is some serious consequences to technology that unfortunately isn’t obvious from the get go. More unfortunately, we have a culture of not caring. Innovation first, policy second, right? Except that only works while policy can still catch up. We’ve been slow walking into a situation where, yeah, one of these generations is definitely getting fucked. Probably, though, it’s each generation getting a little more fucked as we continue having them.
I’m not ignoring the benefits. The benefits are part of how we justify not impeding the innovation process — it’s literally part of the problem. The root of the issue is that we ignore the consequences, pretend that’s just the way things are, and think in weird metaphors like “the market will self correct” and “the market is never wrong.” If the future generations aren’t fucked, it’ll be because they solved the problems that were created here. It won’t be “they weren’t fucked because they were never fucked.” No, they were fucked. Hopefully they figure it out.
Funny you say that. In ways not everyone (obviously) sees, each generation was right about that.
No. Each generation was fucked in their own way, regardless of the two edges of the progress that they grew up with.
So sad for Firefox. I try to keep using since it’s the only solution free of Chromium, but I guess chromium will control everything only Safari will not be chromium.
Librefox, waterwolf, mullvad, fennec?
What is this, a cutlery drawer?
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Hopefully Ladybird will be production ready at some point.
Ladybird is pretty much dead to me, firstly because the dev has some really bad right wing vibes (he said gender inclusive language is too political for his docs and retweeted a Nazi on Twitter). And secondly because the started using AI to move the code to Rust to make it more secure, which is insane if you know anything about AI or security.
My current hope is in servo, because they have much more capable maintainers and the project seems to make some good progress. Also they have daily builds on their website for every operating system, so you can already try it out easily (but don’t expect everything to work right now, they still need some time).
I did not know about the AI stuff. However, I do think that the “inclusion” controversy is way overblown. Why in the world would you need to have “gender inclusive language” in the docs for a browser engine?
That ladybird gender thing is such a load of crap. I find it hard to even believe that people are genuinely passionate about it. Every time ladybird is mentioned, someone brings up the ‘extreme views’ based on this. But it is the biggest load of nothing you are ever likely to see.
For anyone who doesn’t know, here’s what happened:
- The build documentation for this unreleased pre-beta software used the pronoun ‘he’.
- Someone suggested that they change it to be more inclusive.
- The author didn’t think it was important enough to change, so left it.
- More requests and pressure came to change the pronoun.
- The pronoun was then changed, and the author apologised.
To me, that’s a minor error of judgement, with no lasting harm caused to anyone at all. But yet somehow this is constantly used as a reason to avoid ladybird.
How can I take this seriously? Is this some kind of organised anti-competition propaganda campaign? We’re talking about a free and open source project of a highly technical nature, and somehow people are upset that the word ‘he’ existed temporarily in a work-in-progress document with a target audience of essentially zero people. The people making this project are not political leaders or public figures with media training. They are focused on the technical side of things. Yeah, the pronoun was a mistake, but it pretty much the smallest mistake you could possibly make in this context. It not like they are donating to right-wing orgs, or publicly denouncing anyone, or promoting hate. I see far worse than what they did on a daily basis from all sorts of people - including right here in lemmy. And in terms of ladybird, I have not heard of any kind of misstep ever since this instant - which was a very long time ago now. It is honestly bizarre that people have clung onto this incident. I’m honestly not sure I believe that the backlash is entirely organic. It’s just too disproportionate.
[edit] Let me just follow this by saying that I do think there are other good reasons to be upset with this same ladybird dev. I just don’t think the ‘he’ in the docs thing is anything at all.
Or we could ask the question in the opposite direction - why would you use language which excluded anybody who doesn’t identify as male from the documentation for an open-source project, to the point where when someone offers to update the language for you your response is to rant about “personal politics” and write a contribution policy which forbids the use of gender-neutral language?
Can you provide an example of this non-inclusive language? I honestly can’t even come up with an example for web browser documentation that would refer to any gender at all.
“In case of browser crash, the male, white, cis user should submit a bug report”
To prevent this, remove `anon` from the `wheel` group and he will no longer be able to run `/bin/su`.
As opposed to
To prevent this, remove `anon` from the `wheel` group and they will no longer be able to run `/bin/su`.
https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pull/6814/commits/beb448fc248f1cbd82a4c68ddf72687203d4d51e
That’s the example linked to from the thread which started the controversy off: https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pull/6814
[Tunas1337]
It’s a minor nitpick, but I think it’s important; assuming the user and/or developer of the operating system is male isn’t exactly the best.
[awesomekling]
This project is not an appropriate arena to advertise your personal politics
I don’t know the actual thing that happened but I’m assuming “the user [something] <his/him/he> [something]”
Whether or not the inclusion controversy is “overblown” (it’s not; single word change would have made more people feel welcome, but Kling decided to put his for down) Kling has down himself to be Nazi adjacent.
https://hyperborea.org/reviews/software/ladybird-inclusivity/
Apparently Kling was against using “they” instead of “he”. While I do agree that it’s wrong and gender neutral terms should be used, I wouldn’t “cancel” the guy over it. Afaik they are using gender neutral terms now.
The other stuff about Kling mentioned at the bottom of your link is worrying though. It’s a shame a project as important and necessary as Ladybird was created by a person like him :(
Good thing it’s an open source project so it doesn’t really matter at all what you think of someone working on it imo
This whole ”controversy” surrounding Ladybird is such a nothing burger, people are just looking for an excuse to be offended. Is everyone you disagree with either right wing or nazis?
I won’t use < insert FOSS Project > because of political vibes.
I see this shit almost everyday. Absolute npc behaviour.
Yea I just don’t get it for open source software, like you aren’t supporting their agenda by using the free fucking software
Ladybird is gonna be awesome, you are overblowing things, it’s an open source project chill out. Also sevro is not currently really being designed as a desktop web browser. Its a web engine for light weight embedded applications. Ladybird is currently the only in development webbrowser that is primarily designed with desktop main browser use as its intended use.
And I know you aren’t a fan but in the next 5 years pretty much every piece of software you touch will have code from an LLM in it, so get over it or stop using software.
I don’t think it’s overblowing things at all when I look at these tweets: https://nitter.net/awesomekling/status/1966456391146606806 https://nitter.net/awesomekling/status/1971287738268909576
That dev seems to be a real piece of shit.
Looking at those tweets I would say it is way overblown. People act like it’s the end of the world if there is a slight disagreement.
If you think rejecting hate speech is overblown, you might be part of the problem. It’s not a “slight disagreement” when people question the fundamental right to live of another group.
I don’t see any hate speech and I tried looking for anyone questioning another groups right to live. Is the group thing connected to Charlie Kirk?
I did see some blog posts from David Heinemeier Hansson that could be seen as controversial, but that’s just it, controversial, people have different opinions on topics.
I’m glad Kirk got necked and it’s sad he supports him, but that doesn’t change the fact ladybird is an exciting open source project that I can’t wait to try out.
see how much opinions can differ: I am not glad about anyone getting murdered (neither am I sad about this particular one), but I think that people propagating hate and intolerance should focus on therapy, not open source.
Ladybird is being rewritten in Rust by AI for no reason whatsoever. Browsers should be secure, and vibe coding prevents security.
Currently I am hopeful for Servo. Its development is not as far along, but it seems way saner. It bans AI contribution, and it’s intended to be very performant.
Seeing AI invade open source is sad. AI slop contributions. AI integration that no one asked for.
For now Firefox derivatives are fine (I use LibreWolf), but many of those derivatives don’t work on macOS because it “fails to verify that this executable is actually executable” (what does that actually mean?????????).
I had hopes for Ladybird Browser but now it’s being vibe coded (rewritten in rust by ai for no reason whatsoever), and it’s not ready yet anyway. Now I’m hopeful for Servo engine. It’s in development but at some point it will be ready, and it bans slop contributions.
You should see how AI is being deployed in warfare. Plausible deniability is about to go through the roof.
Back in the day, you get out jail free card was on a scale of “the devil made me do it” to “I was following orders”, now we get “It was AI”
Much like Adobe‘s Acrobat which I also have to use for work. At least from what I can tell when it suddenly summarizes a PDF. There‘s no way in hell that happens locally. But the fact that it seemingly automatically processes potentially sensitive data from customers didn‘t even do as little as raising eyebrows when I brought it up.
I use Firefox as a PDF reader at work. it’s better than Adobe Reader or Chrome, and it’s good enough, so I haven’t bothered finding something else.
I deal with secure information sometimes, in PDF form. I haven’t even considered that this information might not remain local.
I use KDE’s PDF reader Okular
Sumatra is the notepad++ of pdf readers (minus the state sponsored hackers https://notepad-plus-plus.org/news/hijacked-incident-info-update/)
Looks interesting! I can’t see it in their docs, can it display the font type and size of a selected text? I’ve been using PDF-XChange Viewer mostly for that feature. (Lol I just noticed it has been discontinued since 2018 😬)
No way in hell? My understanding is that an NPU could perform that type of processing locally. I welcome info & correction!
(I know other types of local ai processors could too, but there’s little chance Acrobat would be geared to look for them - even GPUs - unlike NPUs.)
Now if we switch to talking about policy instead of capability, I don’t think Adobe would miss a chance to be evil. So yeah they’re probably stealing all the data they possibly can.
No thanks.
They can’t help themselves.
One would think they’d be extra careful not to piss the users off at this point… but no.
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Exactly what I thought when I got to that bit of the article.
What could go wrong.
OpenCode with Playwright gives you full control over what model you use, the prompts, and what it integrates with, and it promotes open weight models. The way Firefox implements this seems gimmicky, and I don’t like that it persistently collects your info while browsing. Also fuck OpenAI.
Mozilla is still being paid by Google so they can continue to exist and make sure Google won’t be sued for monopoly behaviors, is it not?
If so, is it fair to assume that Google is just paying them to piss off the user base so that everyone will use chrome anyways?
If not, them why the fuck has Mozilla been doing everything to be hostile to it’s users, for years now?
So I feel violated and gross and I never wanna use Firefox again. I don’t care if you can self host it. I don’t care if it’s private. Mozilla propagandists need to fucking understand that their privacy policy does not reassure me. Nor does the fact that they went back on the AI kill switch and sent my information that should’ve been private to someone else’s computer a good thing. It is fucking bad and I hope Mozilla fucking implodes. In the rise of fascist governments and the need for privacy. This is unacceptable and I refuse to even use a third party fork of Firefox. The best feature arguably that made Firefox worth while that being syncing has been basically weaponized potentially into something evil that will be used against people. Especially as they have long since updated their policies to make sure law enforcement can gain access to your personal information anyway. I will switch to Vivaldi. Something that doesn’t have money issues and makes ad revenue through search engine deals that aren’t Google and Bing. Something that will sync my browser data end to end encrypted where they cannot fucking see it. Truly go fuck Mozilla.
Nor does the fact that they went back on the AI kill switch and sent my information that should’ve been private to someone else’s computer a good thing.
when did they do that?
