No shit Sherlock. The smart voters were telling you MAGA was going to fuck everything up.
Duh. Get out competed bozo
Officially, sure. But we know for a fact massive shipments of Nvidia’s workstation graphics cards have been coming to China for a while. So good job making it slightly more expensive for Chinese companies, I guess?
Sure. Second hand with a commensurate markup.
But, at this point, is China importing more GPUs than it exports? Having a hard time finding the numbers. But I wouldn’t be surprised if Nvidia is facing the same problem in a couple of years that US car manufacturers are facing today - Chinese competitor products selling for 1/5th the price of the US models globally, while the US manufacturers complain about raw materials constraints and labor shortages that Chinese firms don’t grapple with.
Oh, that will definitely happen in the near future. At least one Chinese company is already making solid GPUs, but with terrible drivers. Once they work on the software side, they should be viable for everyday use. Probably no competition for a 5080 or 5090, but lower models at half the price.
Probably no competition for a 5080 or 5090
Don’t blink or you’ll miss it when it comes.
This is what happens when there are zero reliable reporters to call bullshit, CEOs make shit up and no-one checks their work. It’s just ‘Jensen Huang says’.
Shocker, cut China off from US designed (not manufactured) chips and they make their own (capitalist competition, remember that old thing), still coming up to speed, but soon, and I’d like some DDR5 (or 6) SamA you dick.
The only thing at play for these pricks is the ‘CUDA moat’ (and the lack of effort from AMD’s RocM, also, you wouldn’t believe how amenable that [ironically] is to LLM coding), and a few hardware tricks (it’s just compute, catch up will happen), but if there’s someone outside your duopoly that dog won’t continue to hunt. Bad thing when a vasty majority of US GDP is AI BS. Shame you’ve got an idiot rampaging through the world markets for a relative pittance (but actual fortune) from insider trading. Who would have thought that’d go badly long term.
Back to weapons for you, and your military doesn’t know how to make a cheap (anything) drone.
And American attitude is turning the world away from them. If China comes up with good chips, I think they have a huge market. People dont trust US technology now.
Huawei made excellent laptops until US shut them down. Its always the US. And they are always spreading fear about China spying, while having backdoors into American technology themselves.
I’m thinking that there is not a single American strategy to try and keep ahead of China which is not some form of bullshit, be it the “scare” of “Chinese backdoors in Tech” to try and convince other countries not to buy Chinese Tech or the desperate, desperate, oh so desperate attempt at turning into a Future-defining Tech an American-dominated subset of ML (that’s been called AI and treated as if it’s genuinelly intelligent) being propelled by America’s until recently highly successful Tech Investment environment, all of which failing because of that kind of ML’s inherent limitations and because said Tech Investment environment is nowadays mostly Fraud so overpromised and kept pushing as “the Future” well beyond the point it proved its inherent limits what’s de facto a failed prototype.
I have no doubt in my mind that America, right now, has failed to grab the Future and is already fading into irrelevance, and this not even a Trump thing even though he definitelly expedited it.
I just hope the corrupt crooks that pass for politicians in this side of the Atlantic (Europe) don’t drag us down with America.
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Shame you’ve got an idiot rampaging through the world markets for a relative pittance (but actual fortune) from insider trading. Who would have thought that’d go badly long term.
Ironically, it may actually be Trump who brings about the rapid global adoption of EVs and renewable energy because of his stupid war with Iran and his tariffs. The rest of the world is fed up with having to rely on fossil fuels and they are dramatically ramping up both EV adoption as well as renewable energy.
I get the feeling that the US and Russia will be the last countries to fully adopt electric vehicles.
Meanwhile Trump is paying companies in the US to shutter wind turbine projects.
Lets not forget Moore’s law is dead. There are no more die shrinks to be had. We’re measuing gates with atoms.
The dog is doomed.
GPU from Temu when ?
There’s the MTT S80 (First PCIe Gen 5 GPU lol) which is the consumer grade version of Moore Thread’s enterprise GPUs like S4000, but the problem is that they trade off super cheap VRAM and PCIe bandwidth for low compute power compared to even antiquated stuff from Intel, AMD, and Nvidia.
They’re actually a great choice if you want to run AI/LLM stuff for really cheap, and Moore threads has their own CUDA knockoff called MUSA which iirc does have support in the various LLM backends available. Back when they released, it was going for something like $160 in China and ~$200-250 online. Could easily pool the VRAM, though finding a mobo+CPU combo with enough PCIe lanes to spare meant you’d most likely not be taking advantage of more than maybe 2 or 3 cards in one tensor parallel split.
China’s domestic processor production is still catching up, so even though they have access to high speed RAM and all the latest standards, they don’t have the cores to match.
Their last KX7000 x86 CPU was comparable to a skylake i5 or i7, but just with newer standards like DDR5 and PCIe gen 4. So they’re about 7 years behind based on that estimate.
I watched Gamers Nexus where they tested those Chinese made GPUs. They were absolutely shit, and weren’t even half of what they claimed.
Which one ? There is only tear down video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGe_fq68x-Q
Uh wait uh Mr Jacket Clown Man, wasn’t this kind of your plan?
You… you’re on the advisory panel.
For AI policy.
… ?
In the future, memory will cost nothing because we will just assume no human beings have any.
- Mr Jacket Clown Man, at some point, presumably.
Absolutelly, these are the consequences of Jensen Huang’s “strategy” and he’s just doing the usual trick of such inept high level managers when the mid and long-term consequences of their strategical ineptitude catch up with them of trying to distance himself from the consequences of his success in shaping American policy (by, lets be fair, just following other inept CEOs of other large Tech companies in the US).
IMHO the single biggest external visible marker that a CEO is strategically inept (i.e. incompetent at the core skill that differentiates mid from upper management) is how talkie-talkie (call it “salesmanship”, if you’re being generous) is their “solution” for everything.
I really hope NVIDIA and its shareholders suffer hard for giving the job of a strategist to a salesman.
Chinese AI labs kinda seem like a plot twist in LLM evolution. Their models are quite capable now. They’re not at the levels of American labs’ flagship models yet, but the gap has been narrowing quite a lot.
When OpenAI and Anthropic models are only marginally better, but much pricier, then I would think they’ll gradually shed users (followed by investors).
Ironically, I could imagine a possibility of Nvidia “saving” American AI. If they can take the lead with Nemotron (in like a “post-OpenAI/Anthropic” future when open-source models dominate), then maybe they can survive on chip sales… Though they’d probably have to compete with Chinese chips at that point.
I don’t plan on forgiving Nvidia or Micron or anyone else who sold us out to get in on the debt transfer scam that is propping up the US economy, the bubble will burst, and I hope they all go down in flames with it.
Chinese Big Tech isn’t really known for innovation, they take existing tech and push to make it more efficient by just throwing people at the problem. It’s basically because they have a culture where critical thinking is not welcome. Makes it difficult to think outside the box. It’s why they still haven’t gotten an EUV machine out of the prototyping phase
Their only real innovative industry is their battery industry.
Chinese Big Tech isn’t really known for innovation
Innovation under Pressure: China’s Semiconductor Industry at a Crossroads
For the first time among those watching these issues closely, the technological “choke point” strategy adopted by U.S. authorities across the late 2010s and early 2020s has now been shown to have failed, as Chinese government and R&D officials, as well as key state-backed and private sector firms, have been able to respond to the challenge forcefully and effectively. Leading the response are key policymakers: Vice Premier Ding Xuexiang, and the semiconductor team at the National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC), overseen by Vice Minister Xiangli Bin. A new AI-focused group at the NDRC overseen by Vice Minister Huang Ru is also increasingly important, as semiconductor and AI-related industry policies increasingly dovetail.
…
Leading domestic foundry SMIC, for example, has faced pressure to manufacture Huawei’s most advanced chip designs by stretching existing foreign equipment to its limits. This includes deep ultraviolet (DUV) lithography systems supplied by the Dutch firm ASML, which are being pushed beyond their intended capabilities, often resulting in low and inconsistent yields. The urgency stems from Huawei’s need for system-on-chip (SoC) processors for its consumer devices—especially smartphones, as well as for advanced AI chips in its Ascend 9XX series.
Remind me, again. Who else was experimenting with deep ultraviolet (DUV) lithography at scale prior to 2024? Who else was a front-runner in developing and deploying system-on-a-chip or AI embedding?
That’s before you get into the EV sector, SMRs for bulk shipping, or the Chinese airplane and aerospace development.
India, Korea, and Japan have all been in a scramble to keep up with the Chinese industrial programs. Meanwhile the US/EU don’t even seem to bother trying.
This is the same racist bs we told ourselves about the Japanese and then the Koreans. Obviously only Americans have the Innovation Gene
I doubt it’s the “culture.” It’s just that they used to specialize in making things for the lowest cost possible. That’s changing bit by bit. DJI is best in class for example; no other consumer product comes close. They are also leading in many scientific fields.
All this means is that China is now spinning up their own lithography machines so you’ll eventually be able to buy a 512GB stick of DDR5 on Alibaba for $8 + $20 shipping.
ASML makes the machines and they’re restricted from exporting to China. Does China have the capability to make comparable ones itself?
A lot of companies make lithography machines, ASML just makes the best ones.
As of 2023, China has domestic companies who have made 28nm process nodes: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/chinas-first-28nm-capable-scanner-to-be-delivered-by-end-of-2023
This was top of the line around 2010. So in consumer tech terms: Apple’s A7 SoC (iPhone 5S, iPad Air), Intel Sandy Bridge/AMD Bristol Ridge and DDR3 RAM .
They have better machines in production, they just cannot manufacturer them domestically. Using those machines they’re producing:
- 14nm (2014-2019 era, Intel Broadwell-Coffee Lake, Ryzen 1000/2000, DDR4), Mass produced by SMIC
- 7nm (2018-2021, Apple A12/A13, AMD Ryzen 3000/5000, faster DDR4), Limited production at SMIC
- 5nm (2020-2023 iPhone 12-15, AMD Zen4, DDR5-4800), currently in development/low yields ~20%
They do not have any EUV (sub-5nm) capacity domestically.
China isn’t that far behind current generation chips and most people are probably using devices with 14/7nm chips in them due to the AI bubble eating up all of the newest process chips and driving prices out of reach of consumers.
Those are the entirelly the predictable consequences of America getting away with blocking the sale of such machines to China.
What the fuck did those strategically inept morons expected: that a country the size of China which trains TONS of Engineers would in an area were progress has actually slowed down a lot just give up and go “yeah, we’ll yield to the will of America and accept that our future is making plastic gadgets” rather than try to catch up to a competition that’s barelly moving forward???
Maybe the brainrot of Racism and Nationalism made those acephalic idiots think that Chinese are somehow inherently inferior to “our people” and couldn’t possibly figure out by themselves how to progress in the area of chip making.
how long is Europe going to continue to do US policy just to screw China while being directly threatened and witnessing the US lose a war in Iran?
Europe can’t do shit unless we cut ties with US tech. Reality is, we can’t antagonize Pedonald too much, or he will cut us off. Companies and governments are still too dependent on Microsoft and other US tech. Without access to that, they would be fcked.
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Wasn’t that the whole point of the export policy? So it hasn’t backfired, it’s working exactly as intended.
My reading of his strategic sense when saying it backfired, is not expecting Deepseek or the greater push for open source lightweight models. Also NVIDIA would love to make a lot of money in China.
No Chinese leather jackets for Jensen. :(
Good thing you spend last year sucking his little mushroom, Jensen.
Not really true I don’t think. All the new Chinese models run too well on the Blackwell architecture.
Most of the policies from this administration are failing.
wasn’t the chip ban from the Biden admin?
Yes
We did it, Patrick! Nvidia no longer has a foothold on China!
So…what are the “brands” of GPUs that China uses/sells instead? Are they mentioned at all? And can I order one?
There are a bunch, and you can’t buy them retail as far as I know, but I’m sure you can find them on aliexpress and eBay.
But they’re currently several years behind current nvidia chips. It’ll take a couple more before they’re globally competitive.
Several years behind in what sense?
AI workloads in datacenters don’t care if the silicone is slightly bigger or less efficient, an AI workload doesn’t need fancy instruction sets.
for use in desktops or laptops, sure NVIDIA can be years ahead but for AI stuff do their improvements really matter?
Well we all don’t have a government pursuing renewable that makes power costs predictable drop over time. Efficiency matters when I’m looking at my power bill thay went up because of a near by data center being built
That sucks for Chinese residents if the power company will jack up their prices, but is it going to make a huge difference in an industry where all companies are losing money to pay slightly more for the electricity?
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