China Installed More Solar Panels Last Year Than the U.S. Has in Total::China installed more new solar capacity last year than the total amount ever installed in any other country.
Currently seeing the US climate narrative shift from “why should we stop burning fossils and get our shit together when China won’t? >:(” to “why should we stop burning fossils and get our shit together when Senegal won’t? >:(” Can’t wait for 20 years from now when we’re balls deep in climate disasters, Senegal gets its shit together, and the US narrative moves to
hondurasEl SalvadorUgandacomparing itself to the Philippines.Holy crap you guys, it turns out that the narrative that the developing world is going to burn an ass-ton of fossil fuels is a lot weaker than I thought. It looks like there’s a fuckton of equatorial and global south countries with renewables/hydro power, Honduras is even adding Geothermal. God damn it, USA, get off your ass and fix your shit already.
China needs a fuckload of power, they are building more of everything including coal. The only reason they aren’t building more coal is people like seeing out their windows.
The US is actually winding down coal use. China is still expanding, this is a problem. The fact China also added a ton of solar panels is a nice distraction.
I seem to have been working on old info, as China has decommissioned 70 GW of coal plants, but it looks like they also just approved a whole lot more of them.
In the third quarter of this year, however, China permitted more new coal plants than in all of 2021, according to Greenpeace, even as most countries have stopped building new coal-fired power and are phasing out plants.
Well, shit.
Anyway, I’m glad for the solar and nuclear capacity (LOTS of it!) that China’s been building. I’m glad to hear that we are spinning down coal capacity, but I’d be interested to learn what we’re replacing it with. It seems like natural gas is all the rage these days, and that still produces GHG emissions.
the coal is approved because on how power plants function. dirty energy is usually used to level out power spikes in demand, but not as a main source after you have a remeweable source. its a tually very hard to go 100% renewables.
We’ve moved from 17% to 40% of total energy production coming from renewables since 2020. Thanks to Biden policies. Even though according to reddit he’s an incontinent dementia patient.
Source? I haven’t seen final numbers for 2023 from EIA yet, but 2022 was like 22%. The growth is accelerating as economics change, and in large part the IRA (thanks Biden), but it’s not 40%. I’m speaking of electricity production, but I can’t think of a reasonable metric that’s anywhere near 40% nationally. Let’s try to stick to reality here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_the_United_States
You said renewables are 40%, which is wrong. Then you sourced articles showing that carbon free sources are 40%, which includes nuclear. Nobody calls nuclear “renewable”, so I suggest getting your language straight so as not to confuse.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_proposed_as_renewable_energy
You are a total douche, btw.
We’ve moved from 17% to 40% of total energy production coming from renewables since 2020
This what you said. You’re comparing a 2020 number without nuclear to a 2022 number with nuclear. That’s dumb and misleading. That doesn’t make me a douche, it makes you wrong and petty. Grow up and just try to get your numbers and facts straight.
Good news for one of the planet’s most polluting countries.
That is producing for the rest of the world and especially for the west. It’s hypocritical to blame china while buying stuff that had to be cheaper and cheaper.
The average consumer doesn’t actually have a choice in the matter. Unless you are wealthy enough to purchase only local artisan made goods near everything you can afford is made in China or made in China adjacent.
That’s not really the point. The point is their emissions will be higher because they’re producing all the stuff everyone else purchases. The production is what creates pollution. If they stopped producing then other countries would and they would increase their pollution.
It’s not saying don’t buy products from China. It’s saying China polluted because things are bought from them. The pollution would be wherever production is taking place.
That is exactly my point. Thanks for elaborating it!
You could simply not purchase as much crap. Half of the factories that supply the West’s goods would go out of business if people stopped buying new phones and shitty plastics every full moon.
Oh no, that’s the freedom way. Gods forbid, they’d be living like the bland Soviet blocks otherwise.
Then you cannot complain about corporations moving jobs overseas. Clearly was the only way for the society to survive.
I don’t think that absolves China of any blame. They’re still choosing to produce cheap goods at the expense of the planet, because it’s good business for them too.
If not them then it’d be someone else. Clearly they’re starting to take polluting seriously.
If you look at CO2 emissions per capita then China is actually doing better than countries like Canada, the US, and Singapore. Assuming I haven’t completely misread that table.
CO2 emissions are carefully curated and we are not even that good at calculating them. I wouldn’t trust any of this info coming from China let alone from any nation.
Do you have a better metric?
Big dog 2 months… If you knew how companies figure out their pollution metrics you would be very sad.
As for a better metric, I don’t know. Everything is tied to cost so it’s really dumb
Not sure why you’re so hung up on dogs or 2 months. The thread still shows up in searches and you’re clearly getting updates on it. Unless there’s some evidence to suggest the information in this thread is now obsolete, there’s no reason not to respond.
@esteeyou@lemmy.world made a claim and provided evidence. Unless there’s better evidence to the contrary it’s reasonable to accept the claim. My children sometimes still respond to arguments with, “Nuh uh.” I generally expect more from adults.
Here’s the summary for the wikipedia article you mentioned in your comment:
This is a list of sovereign states and territories by per capita carbon dioxide emissions due to certain forms of human activity, based on the EDGAR database created by European Commission. The following table lists the 1970, 1990, 2005, 2017 and 2022 annual per capita CO2 emissions estimates (in kilotons of CO2 per year). The data only consider carbon dioxide emissions from the burning of fossil fuels and cement manufacture, but not emissions from land use, land-use change and forestry Over the last 150 years, estimated cumulative emissions from land use and land-use change represent approximately one-third of total cumulative anthropogenic CO2 emissions. Emissions from international shipping or bunker fuels are also not included in national figures, which can make a large difference for small countries with important ports. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Sixth Assessment Report finds that the “Agriculture, Forestry and Other Land Use (AFOLU)” sector on average, accounted for 13-21% of global total anthropogenic GHG emissions in the period 2010–2019.
No, it’s not hypocritical. Yes, anyone with half a brain knows China makes a huge chunk of the world’s stuff.
A nation can make choices as to what energy sources they use and China went balls to the wall with coal. That wasn’t a choice the buyers of Chinese products made.
Lol look what they are spending the money they earn from those industries. At least they are not solely funding decades long genocide but actually doing something about the emissions they take on.
Tibet
Uyghers
And why are they one of the most polluting countries?
Bad manufacturing practices that exploits a poor labor force. They use this to their advantage to persuade western companies to provide cheap service at the cost of their workforce and sustainability. They then turn around and make these grand plans of Eco friendly targets while their populace regularly burn their trash with little regulation. Then some regulation agency comes in and turns a blind eye to some foul shit as long as they are paid accordingly to play ball.
Because they pollute a lot
Only way many western countries were able to slow their rise in CO2 emissions. Despite outsourcing their emissions to China, the US still emits twice the CO2 per capita compared with China.
Actually they are poluting for you to buy your stuff cheaper, who is responsible for the polution of your stuff? Dowa not make any sense to blame them for factories that the west choosed to put there.
They could always say no
polluting to meet the online shopping demands of western countries
There’s a reason the US is targeting China from various fronts (trade restrictions, sanctions, etc.). China is a powerhouse and the US is terrified of being left behind.
I don’t get why you’re getting dowvoted. I guess there are a lot of Americans over here. But your statement is absolutely true. The US attempts at restricting China’s access to various technologies only make sense if they feel threatened by them.
It just could be, maybe, military posturing.
Because I don’t remember any restrictions for as long as China didn’t intend to start the WW3.
We’re watching The Thucydides Trap unfold in real-time
Here’s the summary for the wikipedia article you mentioned in your comment:
The Thucydides Trap, or Thucydides’ Trap, is a term popularized by American political scientist Graham T. Allison to describe an apparent tendency towards war when an emerging power threatens to displace an existing great power as a regional or international hegemon. The term exploded in popularity in 2015 and primarily applies to analysis of China–United States relations. Supporting the thesis, Allison led a study at Harvard University’s Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs which found that, among a sample of 16 historical instances of an emerging power rivaling a ruling power, 12 ended in war. That study, however, has come under considerable criticism, and scholarly opinion on the value of the Thucydides Trap concept—particularly as it relates to a potential military conflict between the United States and China—remains divided.
good bot
Good for them
BuT At wHaT CoSt
china also has more population than any other country
Oh my God, that’s awful!
I hope the US responds by installing more solar panels this year than China ever has!
Let’s install solar panels on the moon! That’ll fucking show them. Beam the energy back to earth with giant fucking microwave dishes. Ohhh that would really piss off them damn reds
We can do it, not because it’s easy, but because it is hard.
Wait what? That’s an awful reason to do something.
Doing the hard thing is a learning experience.
China’s govt has been trying to make their country as self sustaining as possible, this is part of that initiative. No one can tell you shit if you’re don’t rely on anyone for external things.
Ya, it makes sense considering China imports 2/3 of their oil. Solar and EVs make a lot of sense when you don’t have much in the way of fossil fuels. Not even considering the environmental benefits
We’d have more if these right wing assholes would get onboard. You know they’re assholes because they’re attacking China in the comments rather than acknowledging this awesome milestone
Bigger country does things bigger, more at 11.
True, now I expect Canada to install more solar panels than China has in total.
Then next is Russia. I like this common sense concept!
“The United States occupies a total area of about 3.8 million square miles while China has an area of approximately 3.7million square miles. However, China has a bigger land area than the United States. The Chinese land area is about 2.2% bigger than the United States (3.5 million square miles).“
They were probably referring to population
China also consumes twice as much electricity as the US (half as much per capita)
About 20% of that US land is in Alaska, which is not a place to put solar panels. Not if you want them to produce for half the year at a stretch, anyway.
US Population: 332 Million
China Population: 1.4 Billion
But they still have their crazy mines that polute right? No number of solar pannel will change anything if you don’t stop what you are doing that polutes.
Same for all countries btw…China is installing more energy production than any other country. Wind, solar, coal and nuclear. They are installing everything.
Can’t wage war if you depend on oil ships
Don’t have to wage war if you don’t depend on oil.
The rise of China is democratizing access to technology. My home government, supposedly a longtime partner of the US even doing its dirty work in Yemen, has struggled for years to get any tech transfer deal with the US, too many hoops to jump through. But were able to get many tech transfers from China recently. It was a major win and that technology includes solar panel manufacturing.
Too many hoops, like stop funding the terrorist groups that attacked The US on 9/11? Yeah, I can see how MBS might have some trust issues coming from The US.
Funny you accuse the Saudi government of what was an inside-job. The Saudi government exiled Bin Laden in the 1990s, revoking his citizenship, while the US was still working with him. Either way we don’t need it from you. China is making you irrelevant. You can’t withhold technology to bully the rest of the world. You can go pound sand.
Also funny coming from a nation where a genocidal maniac is the lesser evil, someone who is bypassing Congress to send weapons to Israel and bomb Yemen. You keep your electoralism, and I am keeping our free healthcare, free universities and high speed rail.
FYI, the US is guilty of multiple war crimes in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere. They are guilty right now of war crimes in Palestine. It is really tiring how you pretend to be the good guys. You are Homelander not Superman, and you are no longer the only player in town.
Shit were guilty of war crimes inside the US. Tell me something I don’t know.
Thing is our government occasionally fucks up and does some good shit. MBS, and Ji Jinpooh don’t give two fucks about their own people or any others.
MBS is still funding terrorist groups 24 years later, and murdering journalists.
The US Government may be a soulless corporate structure bent on enriching itself. MBS is a parochial dictator that is just pissed off we don’t need his dino juice anymore.
Bro… the current leadership of China committed genocide on their own soil and have been attempting to expand their borders for decades.
China is not a good partner for playing the lesser of 2 evils game. You’d be at it all day with the whataboutism.
Bro the US wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for genocide and slavery. The US right now occupies oil fields in Iraq and Syria and is stealing the oil. The US right now is sending weapons to Israel to massacre Palestinians. No one cares about your virtue signaling.
China is a much lesser evil. They don’t try to push us to normalize with genocidal maniacs (Zionist usurpers) as a precondition for even the most basic of technologies.
If you think China is so bad just compare the policing of Hong Kong protests with the policing of George Floyd protests. The emperor has no clothes.
FYI: the US is also expanding https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-22/us-claims-huge-chunk-of-seabed-amid-strategic-push-for-resources and it is also helping Israel annex Syrian and Palestinian lands.
What about USA this, what about USA that. What about the assassination of Kashoggi? What about the killings of innocents for protesting in the Arab states?
If you are bringing up journalists then you should care about Palestinian journalists being slaughtered by US weapons
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-war-in-gaza-has-been-deadly-for-journalists
still better than the us
Grow up. Your bias is shining too strongly.
Democracy and technology? You’re thinking of Taiwan.
Which is a part of China according to even the US
Taiwan is an independent and democratic country, unlike the totalitarian and pseudo-communist state that is China.
Good. I assume it helps that most of the world’s solar panel manufacturing is based in China.
The rest of the world should be ramping up production, not relying on China for cheap labour.
I keep seeing more and more about the solar production in Georgia, USA ramping up!
It great to see the world really going into green industrialzation.
Cool part is we’ve got a functional safety system like OSHA so everyone goes home with all their fingers and toes, and the EPA keeps the nearby creeks from getting contaminated.
Can’t say the same for other countries, troubled and fucked up as our country is.
Other countries are Asiatic hordes, nothing but lawlessness and savagery. Only America make clean safe technology! 😜
You know how when you’re the first to do something, you’re also the first to make mistakes? Look at the Hanford site, for example. First place to ever process uranium and plutonium.
Imagine knowing the results of being careless, and being careless anyway, after the fact. 😂 What’s wrong with you??
To be clear: I believe most people anywhere want to be safe, and do a good job. Their administrators and governmental reps are the pieces of dogshit, ccp included, that ignore safety and individuality. The US has serious problems too, but again, we have safety organizations with teeth here.
its obviously good for the rest of the world to industrialize, but they would just be moving carbon emissions from china to themselves.
they themselves would need to transition to renewables if we want this move to be good for the climate.
Think about Uyghurs.
well arab countries have visited them and found no problem and mass refugee movements arent happening. i think they should be fine.
what did i say that was remotely related to them on my post?
Cool.
And how many of them function properly?
Probably every single one of them, but I’m guessing you just feel insecure about your country?
Yea… Hahaha they are chineese panels lol
Many of the panels in the US are manufactured in China.
I was more referencing the fact that there’s a significant problem in china with the misappropriation of funds and replacing of real components and equipment with fake or non-functioning components and equipment.
US has regulatory bodies that (sometimes) work on their own, China has regulatory bodies that only work when the state notices something is wrong, and by that time it’s too late and several billion yuan (RMB) deep.
It’s not as though there’s an intended malevolence to the people by the CCP, it’s just that their organization structure and manner doesn’t allow for a lot of autonomy and requires direct orders to go into action.
