The mods of all the major communities there remove comments criticism Hexbear and usually follow it up with a ban. It’s absolutely clear what is happening and it shouldn’t be allowed to continue.

  • taaz@biglemmowski.win
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    123
    arrow-down
    22
    ·
    8 months ago

    Welcome to federation, where basically every instance is a proxy to all others.

    Btw you are also free to block any instance yourself.

    • Ech@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      39
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      8 months ago

      Unfortunately blocking an instance only blocks posts on that instance, not users from it, which is the main issue people have with those instances.

      • Draconic NEO@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        12
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        8 months ago

        Yeah it’s a very common misconception, I find it weird that people are still having it though when 0.19 is widely available.

        Maybe they’re just saying it as a way to be dismissive of the issue, this kind of stuff happens often when people report or call to attention malicious instances or malicious users.

          • ArxCyberwolf@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            6
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            8 months ago

            nor how letting a large, poorly moderated instance run wild can negatively affect discourse on the entire platform. Before Hexbear was defed’d on lemmy.ca, Lemmy was damn near unusable on many threads because of the spam and trolling. Blocking them doesn’t stop them from bothering those who haven’t and it affects the platform as a whole.

            • Draconic NEO@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              7
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              8 months ago

              Blocking is not a real solution, it is putting a blanket over the problem and pretending it went away. People who suggest you do that are suggesting you enable bad faith actors by ignoring their behavior, as opposed to reporting it and/or making others aware so they can report it. We all need to work better to make the platform and spaces on it better, if no one works at it, nothing gets better.

              • ArxCyberwolf@lemmy.ca
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                8
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                8 months ago

                Exactly! Letting problematic instances poison the well leads to a net negative to the platform.

      • Clay_pidgin@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        8 months ago

        I use Connect for Android, and when I block an instance it blocks the users too. Their comments are still here, but sort of spoiler tagged.

        • fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          8
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          8 months ago

          Yes but surely you can understand that even votes from these poorly moderated instances are distorting the discourse elsewhere in the lemmyverse.

          Just because you can’t see it does not mean the problem is solved.

      • we is doomed!@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        8 months ago

        I think thays a good compromise. if you then have an issie with a particular user you can block them individually.

    • Draconic NEO@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      30
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      8 months ago

      Btw you are also free to block any instance yourself.

      Not how the instance blocking feature works. it’s a common misconception because people don’t read the docs and just assume it does what they think it does. From the News Section on Join-Lemmy:

      Users can now block instances. Similar to community blocks, it means that any posts from communities which are hosted on that instance are hidden. However the block doesn’t affect users from the blocked instance, their posts and comments can still be seen normally in other communities.

      It’s not an alternative or replacement to defederation, not even close. I’m really surprised this misconception still persists even after widespread adoption of 0.19.x across the Lemmy network.

      • bouh@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        39
        ·
        8 months ago

        So you don’t care about the instance you want to ban all the users from there. That’s quite open minded and tolerant!

            • fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              8 months ago

              Can we stop this please?

              It was never that revolutionary in the first place - “if you allow assholes to be assholes everything will go to shit” - I’m shocked.

              … but now, after seeing it as a reply to every second comment on lemmy, it’s just spam and doesn’t inform discussion in any way.

          • bouh@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            15
            ·
            8 months ago

            You can block instances for yourself instead of blocking them for everyone.

        • Draconic NEO@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          18
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          8 months ago

          @bouh@lemmy.world Lol look at you seething away, came here just to randomly attack people in a defederation thread.

          I know what triggers these types of responses to defederation, many people believe that the Fediverse was some grand user choice and free speech haven. Which is an incorrect assumption, by a long shot. The fediverse since it’s beginning has never been a free speech platform, and also like all other top down servers prioritizes admins, the people who pay the bills and are liable for what happens on their server. So when servers violate these rules and all other options have been exhausted or it is clear that they will continue causing issues persistently, servers are defederated to maintain the peace and safety of their server. One thing to make clear is that all users have the choice of signing up to a different server that does federate, and if they are the victim of one of these compromised/bad-faith servers, they really should consider doing that.

          That’s quite open minded and tolerant! Paradox of Tolerance

          • bouh@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            19
            ·
            8 months ago

            I’m merely pointing the hypocrisy here. Some people on lemmy.world are litteraly on a witch hunt.

  • catch22@startrek.website
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    98
    arrow-down
    20
    ·
    8 months ago

    If they weren’t such weasels and actually agrued back rather than just ban people like the spineless dimwit twats they are, I’d say the argument that they are easily filtered holds. But given they are just looking to propagate their shilling for Russia, trump (and they definitely do this) etc… fuck em!

    • 🇰 🔵 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 ℹ️@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      63
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      8 months ago

      Even outside of their space, when they “argue” it had generally been posting giant, random images that had little to no context followed by walls of emojis. Which is why my blocklist is mostly Hexbear users.

      • GregorGizeh@lemmy.zip
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        37
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        8 months ago

        But you see, if I post the gigachad xi image in a comment I win the argument and my stalin posting friends give me an upvote

      • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        8 months ago

        If you can’t see how hexbear is mirroring trump rhetoric almost word for word then I don’t know what to tell you.

    • rambaroo@lemmynsfw.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      arrow-down
      53
      ·
      8 months ago

      Pretty damn rich coming from lemmy.world where you ban people for criticizing Biden

      All you dummies do when you ban and defederate is push more and more people into extremist communities.

    • 4am@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      28
      arrow-down
      98
      ·
      8 months ago

      Yes, leftists famously LOVE Donald Trump 🤣

      This is the most Reddit radlib shit I’ve seen over here yet. Grow up my dude

      • Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        105
        arrow-down
        11
        ·
        8 months ago

        Lemmy.ml are tankies first and foremost. They’ll defend anything that Russia/China thinks is good.

        Calling them leftists is an insult to the rest of us who aren’t authie chuds.

      • Ð Greıt Þu̇mpkin@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        38
        arrow-down
        10
        ·
        edit-2
        8 months ago

        They sure seem to like him a lot better than voting in solidarity with the people who’s lives he threatens!

        Or maybe I should refine to White “Leftists” since everyone else need not be told why that’s so fucking stupid.

      • Draedron@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        35
        arrow-down
        12
        ·
        8 months ago

        Hexbears arent lefties. They are hiding behind acting like they are lefties while at the same time sucking up to the most fascist regimes on earth.

  • Soullioness@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    76
    arrow-down
    25
    ·
    8 months ago

    I’m all for defederating Hexbear, but lemmy.ml is absolutely huge compared to Hexbear. To motivate the community to do that you’d need quite a bit of proof. Or at least something rather compelling. Do you have any proof of what you’re referring to?

    • RubberDuck@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      108
      arrow-down
      25
      ·
      edit-2
      8 months ago

      Asking for proof of what is an open secret on lemmy seems disingenuous.

      I think that instances like hexbear, lemmygrad, and lemmy.ml are very bad advocates for Lemmy and will most likely end up damaging it more than anything else, keeping the “normies” out.

      They argue in Bad faith, say the most radical stuff they can think of, and purge anything bad said about totalitarian regimes they idolize. China, Russia, Iran, all considered victims of the evil west…

      • Uyghur camps > not happening
      • Tiannamen square > Just some peaceful protests
      • invasion of Ukraine > NATO forced Russia to do it
      • Stamets@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        76
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        edit-2
        8 months ago

        I was banned from lemmy.ml for posting a meme about the fact that gay characters are removed from movies in China. Not even by a mod. By an admin. I’m not remotely surprised they’re pro-shitheap in general

        • Dandroid@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          8 months ago

          There is an admin on lemmy.ml that seems to be banning anyone who says anything negative about China. If I’m thinking of the right person, they are also a large contributor to the Lemmy codebase. That person is why I stopped donating to the Lemmy devs.

          • 𝒍𝒆𝒎𝒂𝒏𝒏@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            8 months ago

            This kind of stuff is making me consider stopping my donations to the Lemmy project, and instead donating to the Sublinks drop-in replacement developed by the programming.dev instance admins

            • jgrim of Sublinks@discuss.online
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              8 months ago

              Hey, I’m the founder of Sublinks. It’s a huge collaboration of several major Lemmy instances like lemmy world, beehaw, discuss.online, programming.dev, and quite a few others that wish not to be named until the release.

              Some admins are directly working on the project while others are providing other types of support. @Ategon@programming.dev is certainly a major contributor and has helped develop the new front end in many major ways. You can follow some progress updates here: !sublinks@discuss.online

              We have several different teams of developers:

              1. API / Java
              2. Front-end / JS/CSS/HTML
              3. Federation / GoLang
              4. Libraries / JS
              5. Requirements gathering and organization
              6. Design & Graphics - UI/UX
              7. Lemmy to Sublinks migration tools

              There is an active community on Matrix where all of us chat: https://matrix.to/#/#sublinks:discuss.online if anyone is interested in joining. We also have weekly touch bases to discuss progress and next steps. There are tons of people contributing.

              We are currently taking donations only through Github: https://github.com/sponsors/sublinks if you’re truly interested. We’re all working on this part-time in our free time and making fantastic progress.

              Let me know if you have any questions!

      • Lemminary@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        39
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        edit-2
        8 months ago

        Hexbear loves to dogpile as well. I’ve seen a couple of raiding threads linking to other threads in Lemmy.ml making fun of whoever. But in reality they’re just directing people over there to shit on someone. At least, that’s what I saw last year, so I’m very distrusting of them.

        That and the Lemmy.ml AMA thread where one admin was all buddy buddy with Hexabear users during their federation.

        • fuckingkangaroos@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          8 months ago

          I abandoned an old account because Hexbear bullies followed me around and downvoted everything. Come to think of it, I haven’t posted a single thing since then, and I had a bunch of posts with hundreds of votes.

      • GBU_28@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        22
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        8 months ago

        Check my history, I called them out for the NATO one today and they threw all sorts of random shit at me that was off the central point, just looking for a mistake in my wording.

        • Eldritch@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          8 months ago

          Yep. They were claiming that Putin invaded Ukraine to stop fascists. And that they were liberators. I was like, why would one fascist care what other fascists do? In the US, our fascist, wealthy Republicans largely supported Hitler till pearl harbor. But I did agree with them that the Soviet Union absolutely liberated many countries against their will post WWII. And that those countries still hold it against them to this day.

          The gulags were mentioned and they were like, but but but America jails more! To which I told them that was bad. But the West doesn’t kill millions of prisoners the way they did. And all for political dissent, reminding them of just two weeks ago when Putin had Navalny killed for political dissent.

          The absurd thing is, I’m one hundred percent down for Marxism. And largely agree politically with his theory plus some modernization. So technically we would agree on a lot of things there. It’s just the Engles and Lenin bullshit I disagree with, and has shown to have failed. Or caused their downfall historically. But they are primarily leninists, dedicated ideologically to authoritarians and strongmen above all reality.

          • beardown@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            8 months ago

            But they are primarily leninists, dedicated ideologically to authoritarians and strongmen above all reality.

            Why does that mean they should be banned? Is speech that we agree with the only permitted speech?

            Just because you think they’re wrong doesn’t mean they should be banned. Banning them makes it look like we’re afraid of people reading their points, which gives them power and credibility

            • fuckingkangaroos@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              8 months ago

              People should have free speech, governments shouldn’t have the ability to degrade our platform with shills and LLMs, especially if they’re spreading propaganda for dictatorships.

      • matcha_addict@lemy.lol
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        9
        ·
        8 months ago

        I would like to see proof of how a community doing its own thing of sharing their radical views on their instance is damaging.

        I haven’t seen any rampant behavior of lemmy.ml users going to other instances and dogpiling certain posts or comment section. That may be defederation worthy.

        • RubberDuck@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          8 months ago

          The denial of having seen it yourself, is something I don’t believe. Therefore I don’t believe you made your reply in good faith.

          Not all of lemmy.ml is a cesspool filled with poisonous cretins, but they (tankies) control the instance at conversational, moderation and administration level. So it will not change, only get worse.

          Just like we see with the MAGAts… Once you start drinking your own coolaid… the sky is the limit.

          • matcha_addict@lemy.lol
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            4
            ·
            8 months ago

            The denial of having seen it yourself, is something I don’t believe.

            If it’s so rampant that you find it unbelievable I haven’t seen it, then it must be very easy to prove. Can you please provide a proof?

            but they (tankies) control the instance…

            It’s their instance. That’s not proper grounds for defederation in my opinion, when the damage is contained within their instance.

            • RubberDuck@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              8 months ago

              As I stated in my preface, no thank you.

              And if it is contained in their instance… it does not matter that the borders are guarded by deFederation.

              • matcha_addict@lemy.lol
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                0
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                8 months ago

                No worries. I never expected you to have the proof anyways, but I wanted readers to be aware that you don’t.

                • RubberDuck@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  8 months ago

                  That’s fair. I think most people can make up their own minds looking at the thread, posts contents and then their own experience in the .ml scape compared to the rest of Lemmy.

      • Paragone@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        36
        ·
        8 months ago

        IF lemmy.ml is admin’d by the Lemmy devs, themselves,

        AND their ideology/prejudice is being obstructed by the Lemmy-verse,

        THEN wouldn’t it be rational for them to engineer-in to Lemmy, itself, protections for their ideology?

        Breaking the Fediverse’s ability to “manage” them?

        or breaking the Fediverse’s ability to have any alternative-ideology be its core??


        I’m thinking they could either adulterate privacy, deliberately, or they could force blocking to be porous, or something…


        IOW, I’m thinking that it is strategically-incompetent to allow tankies to own our core tech, exactly as it is strategically-incompetent to allow right-wing highjackers-of-our-countries to do so.

        ?

        • Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          27
          ·
          8 months ago

          They could, but it’s open source software. People can just fork it and not follow along such self destructive paths.

      • Hubi@feddit.de
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        34
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        edit-2
        8 months ago

        This is less about the instance as a whole. The !worldnews@lemmy.ml mods are notoriously terrible. It’s best to just avoid the community altogether.

      • Lemminary@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        24
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        8 months ago

        Lmao I’ve also been banned by rimjob from World News over the stupidest shit. And yes, he did cite some bullshit even thought I was clearly within the rules and arguing in good faith. How dare someone stand their ground against Bruce Almighty from World News! Not surprised.

        • fuckingkangaroos@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          8 months ago

          I had a bunch of reasonable posts deleted from World News. I just blocked it but defederating would be way better because then we can rebuild a healthier news community somewhere else.

      • bouh@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        10
        arrow-down
        28
        ·
        8 months ago

        With this you’re proving that you are the fascist here who can’t tolerate anyone who doesn’t think like you and who will resort to the most authoritarian measures to remove the people you hate from your spaces.

      • kbal@fedia.io
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        13
        arrow-down
        53
        ·
        8 months ago

        While I agree that hexbear generally sucks, they and I do at least have an enemy in common. That ban is not so undeserved as I was led to expect.

        • Klause@discuss.tchncs.de
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          51
          arrow-down
          10
          ·
          edit-2
          8 months ago

          Is your common enemy the People? Because Hexbear promotes authoritarianism and genocide denial.

          • kbal@fedia.io
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            13
            arrow-down
            38
            ·
            8 months ago

            Tankies say all kinds of stupid things, but even if we grant the thus-far unproven assumption that the person being addressed there is among them, when they’re telling nazis to fuck off that is not an appropriate moment to try and start a pointless fight by asserting that they’re wrong about every single thing.

            • Lemminary@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              22
              arrow-down
              4
              ·
              8 months ago

              It’s not about being wrong or right, it’s that their instance culture is aggressive, immature and arrogant from what I’ve seen. Those meme threads are done obnoxious circlejerks, dear god, I hope they’ve grown out of that at least.

            • LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              13
              arrow-down
              44
              ·
              8 months ago

              Yeah, hexbear people actually defend my rights as a human being while a lot of other communities let Nazis freely JAQ away threads into oblivion

              • Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                32
                arrow-down
                4
                ·
                8 months ago

                Just as long as you’re not Ukrainian, Tibetan, or Uyghur or else they’ll defend ending your life as a human being.

                • rambaroo@lemmynsfw.com
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  8
                  arrow-down
                  20
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  8 months ago

                  So what? It’s no different from lemmy.world where the vast majority of users pay Palestinians lip service but get buttmad at the suggestion of holding the US government accountable for funding Israel, only because the man in office is their guy. You all are more than happy to sacrifice a few tens of thousands of Palestinians if it means you don’t have to criticize dear leader.

                  Most of you are gigantic hypocrites on the topic of genocide.

  • IndustryStandard@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    31
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    8 months ago

    ml and Hexbear definitely don’t have the same users. Their comments look very different. Hexbear is far more extreme in everything way.

    • wesley@yall.theatl.social
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      23
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      8 months ago

      Hexbear is mostly just trolls in my experience. They like to brigade any discussion involving Russia, China, Ukraine, etc.

      Lemmy.ml is full of tankies that will also go out of their way to defend Russia and China but they aren’t just blatant trolls which is the difference.

      Having controversial opinions isn’t the problem, trolling and brigading are

      • stoly@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        8 months ago

        This is also my take. Hex will troll you but ML folks actually think that you are an evil person because you don’t agree with them on some minor point.

    • Armok: God of Blood@lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      10
      arrow-down
      10
      ·
      8 months ago

      I would need pretty convincing evidence to believe that the major .ml communities don’t have at least one mod each with a Hexbear alt.

  • h3ndrik@feddit.de
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    25
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    edit-2
    8 months ago

    At some time we have to deal with this.

    Keep in mind that we like Lemmy for being a federated platform.

    I don’t think there is enough awareness at this point. And the way we do it here, it has to come from the community. The people and mods have to become aware and make a decision to move their participation and the communities to another instance. I don’t see a way around that. This will take some time, patience and effort.

    I’ve started to do my part and unsubscribed from !Fediverse@lemmy.ml I’m now going through my list of subscriptions and find alternatives to other communities, so I don’t contribute to the lemmy.ml communities being the larges ones any more.

    [Edit: Wow. I’ve replaced 32 communities, some with substantially better alternatives, and I’ve found a few nice additional ones in the process. I still need recommendations for alternatives to: “Peertube”, “Libre Culture”, “Crawling the IndieWeb”, “datahoarder”, “Linux Phones”, “postmarketOS”, “osu!”. I’m glad I did this. I think this is the way to make a change as a simple user. And now I’m not part of the problem anymore. It took me the better part of an hour, though.]

    • fuckingkangaroos@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      8 months ago

      I’m just blocking the entire lemmy.ml instance. I’ve seen consistent problems from them, and nothing worth staying connected with.

      Wish I could help you find alternative communities but I’m not sure about the ones you mentioned. They’ll grow over time if Lemmy survives.

  • gedaliyah@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    28
    arrow-down
    26
    ·
    8 months ago

    Lemmy.ml is not only a massive instance, it is also the original and core lemmy instance. Widespread defederation would be like a nuclear bomb to the lemmy platform.

    Some people have developed alternatives in the threadiverse like kbin or piefed. If lemmy.ml is truly too far aflight for users to tolerate, it seems likely that alternative platforms will fill in the gaps. For now, lemmy is still a thriving and growing platform.

    • Lemminary@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      42
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      8 months ago

      Widespread defederation has been the norm, though. It has always been a thing, and many threads exist going back and forth on mutual defederation for ages.

      And also, the only reason I’m on Lemmy.world and not .ml is precisely because of their moderation and their community. I’m the example you’re talking about.

      I say bite the bullet and break the cord already. This is not the first or only thread calling for defederation of Lemmy.ml.

      • gedaliyah@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        12
        ·
        8 months ago

        What I’m saying is that this is a unique instance. I also think that for my purposes, .world is a much better option, and I think that for most people, it’s a much healthier and more stable place. I’m just not sure that the rest of lemmy can survive without .ml - It is literally where the development of the platform happens.

        What do you do when you have defederated from the developers of the platform you’re using? How do you have a working relationship to meet users needs? Someone will say just fork it, but that’s essentially the same as launching a new platform. As I mentioned, others have done exactly that, partly for technical reasons relating to the vision of what the platform should be, but also for political reasons.

        I’m not advocating for anything, i’m simply stating some of the realities of the platform we are using.

        • rambaroo@lemmynsfw.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          21
          ·
          edit-2
          8 months ago

          Lemmy.world will happily destroy lemmy as a whole if their only other choice is allying with leftists.

          • RubberDuck@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            15
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            8 months ago

            What? That is just a silly argument.

            People are discussing destructive moderation by .ml mods. And the damage this is causing to the community. And you go and turn it around by accusing .world of destruction of Lemmy in the hypothetical situation that consequences are connected to behavior of .ml mods and admins.

            I believe the term for this is gaslighting?

            • spiderplant@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              arrow-down
              8
              ·
              8 months ago

              Fracturing the space is way more destructive than whatever you mean by destructive moderating, since the moderating will only affect some communities and even within that, some users while defederating will split the user base.

              • RubberDuck@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                8
                arrow-down
                3
                ·
                8 months ago

                Is it though? As the moderation sets the tone and defines what is allowed conversation. By simply denying truth, they are guilty of the same “alternative facts” shit the trump camp is guilty of… and that is pretty damn dangerous for everyone.

                And unfortunately by setting an instance to block I still have to deal with their scummy Userbase all over the fediverse. deFederation removes that too. It is a solution to the issue. Just like we won’t accept people coming on here and spouting actual nazi propaganda, an instance under the control of authoritarian apologists should not be kept around simply because they run a large instance.

                • beardown@lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  8 months ago

                  You’re talking like a totalitarian. People with this worldview should not hold power, and certainly should not determine what is acceptable discourse.

                  It is disappointing to see that some Americans/Westerners are allergic to disagreeing worldviews. Apparently diversity is only permitted so long as it broadly supports liberal democracies and capitalist understandings of history.

                  Sickening stuff. Makes me think Lemmy isn’t much better than Reddit, particularly if this attitude becomes more prevalent on here

          • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            8 months ago

            This is what Tankies seem incapable of understanding. We don’t dislike you because you’re leftists. We dislike you because you’re authoritarian simping assholes.

            Go to ml and condemn Russia for their war crimes against LGBT Ukrainians. See how long it takes for you to get banned for going against their beloved country.

    • GBU_28@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      27
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      8 months ago

      Ml will be long term poison to the group. There’s nothing new to say over there, all their own threads are circular.

      • beardown@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        8 months ago

        .world spent months denying the genocide in Gaza. It’s a shithole that is likely an op run by western governments to herd in normies and push favorable narratives. Not remotely hard to see that

        • GBU_28@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          8 months ago

          That’s a joke. I’ve seen denial comments but from the very start world was always pro Palestine. This does not mean there are no examples of Gaza denial on . World

      • rambaroo@lemmynsfw.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        14
        arrow-down
        23
        ·
        edit-2
        8 months ago

        Yeah because lemmy world never circlejerks about anything. Meanwhile you’re literally in one now.

    • qdJzXuisAndVQb2@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      21
      arrow-down
      6
      ·
      8 months ago

      It’s not thriving. The devs are prickly arseholes, which is anathema to building a cooperative, volunteer-driven dev community and the tone of many mainstream communities is obnoxiously set by tankies amd their alts.

      • Draconic NEO@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        19
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        edit-2
        8 months ago

        Probably one of if not the biggest reasons people had poor experiences on Lemmy before was because they signed up on Lemmy.ml

        • stoly@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          8 months ago

          LOL this was me. I thought it would be cool to be on the DEV instance and didn’t know that it had a whole lot of other baggage on it.

          • Draconic NEO@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            8 months ago

            It would’ve been me too, but when I started looking at Lemmy the dev’s instance was closed along with many others, so the first one was Lemmy.world for me. While Lemmy.world has its flaws it’s still way better than ml, really dodged a bullet there.

      • matcha_addict@lemy.lol
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        9
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        8 months ago

        What have they done to prevent a cooperative, volunteer driven dev community?

        My experience contributing to lemmy was not bad, albeit it was pretty small thing.

    • RubberDuck@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      20
      arrow-down
      6
      ·
      8 months ago

      So what if it is the original? Bad moderation, combined with idolation of authoritarianism is some poisonous stuff.

      The question is if admins are willing to have an open conversation about the moderation and content.

      But deFederation is a fine solution. Then the admins on .ml have their way and they can have their little hermit kingdom without any dissenting views. And we can go on with out lives without their bile in our feeds and threads.

      • bouh@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        29
        ·
        8 months ago

        It’s crazy that people here want the most authoritarian measure to fight authoritarianism somehow…

        • RubberDuck@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          14
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          edit-2
          8 months ago

          What people, what authoritarian measure?

          You mean it is strange that sane, normal people want to stop authoritarian/totalitarian fanboys from spreading hatefull falsehoods, stifling dissent using bans and heavy moderation? By using the tools at their disposal and telling these smegheads to f- off? Plenty of speech is deemed unacceptable: holocaust denial, swatstikas, from the river to the sea, white power, just to name a few.

          Well if that is your idea of what should be acceptable, we disagree. The Overton window should remain in the middle and not be allowed to stretch to include these extremist views. Not from the “right” or “left”.

          • bouh@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            21
            ·
            8 months ago

            This thread is about de federating from lemmy.lm. Because some fascists here are on a witch hunt against some people from hexbear.

            It is literally telling everyone that either they defederate from hexbear or they defederate from lemmy.world.

            Typical trump diplomacy btw.

            • RubberDuck@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              12
              arrow-down
              4
              ·
              8 months ago

              I think the issue is way bigger than hexbear, or maybe they are mask off on hexbear. But hexbear, lemmygrad and lemmy.ml can be their own little island archipelago for all I care. If this helps people not have to deal with these idiots.

              Keep calling everyone fascists and trump-ets, it does not help your argument.

              • bouh@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                14
                ·
                8 months ago

                You see, now you’re saving the people from the evil leftist propaganda.

                • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  8 months ago

                  No just from tankies that most likely are paid propaganda and dissent posters, is all.

            • Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              8 months ago

              Tankies like you are the reason people think leftists like me call everyone they don’t like fascists.

              Hexbear is a fascist website. You are an idiot.

              • bouh@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                0
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                8 months ago

                I’m not a tankie, and I see far more fascists than I see tankies. In fact I’ve seen maybe two tankies comments on lemmy while I see fascists several times a week.

    • fuckingkangaroos@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      8 months ago

      If that’s what it takes I’m ready to switch to a new platform today. Let’s fork and make something healthy.

      • gedaliyah@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        8 months ago

        You might also be interested in checking out kbin, mbin, SubLinks (under development), or PieFed. they each emerged for the reasons we are talking about. They are all free to try and AFAIK interoperable with lemmy for the time being.

        • fuckingkangaroos@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          8 months ago

          Thank you. I’ve been hearing bad things about Kbin the last few weeks, but Mbin and SubLinks sound promising.

  • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    8 months ago

    Moreover, it seems pretty clear to me that .ml intends to keep their finger on the scale as much as possible. Just saying “oh federation solves all the problems just block them” doesn’t really fix the issue when there are a bunch of ways they can potentially run malicious versions of the code base to mess with how federation functions and hold onto their influence. For example, they are already refusing to federate their mod logs in some cases, and they’ve shown themselves to be completely shameless and hypocritical when it comes to banning any and all dissent. They simply cannot be trusted.

    I personally believe that the broader fediverse should seriously consider taking serious steps to cut out .ml before they do something drastic to fuck it all up

  • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    24
    arrow-down
    24
    ·
    8 months ago

    I predicted this when lemmygrad got defederated. I said that neoliberals were gonna identify some other instance as the “tankie instance” and start campaigning to defederate from it.

  • GrayBackgroundMusic@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    2
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    8 months ago

    No. Defederating at the drop of a hat is stupid. You don’t like it? Then you, YOU, block the instance.

  • daniskarma@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    8 months ago

    Lemmy.ml is a massive instance. I don’t really know where are you posting there, probably in political communities and thus this reaction. But I follow lots of communities that are hosted on Lemmy.ml and they are just normal communities about their topics, normally technology. I certainly do not want to lose those communities of having to move my accounts around just because you had some problems with some particular people. Block them yourself and move on.

    I don’t get why there’s always people in small places that are always doing their best to make them even smaller. Lots of goods things are lost this way. We must be clever in trying to preserve and make this good things thrive. And, believe me I’ve been in lots and lots and lots of small community driven projects, this kind of attitude is no good for them. You cannot take every small issue you have with some part of the project and say: “we do not work together anymore”.

    If there’s an issue let’s be constructive about it. But defederation of such a big instance with so many people and communities that just does not care about this drama… I don’t see how that helps lemmy as a whole.

    I suppose there’s a lot of political ideology behind what’s being ask for, and what’s being said. So I do not expect convince OP of anything, as those hard as steel political beliefs are inmutable. But I hope sanity and a wish for making Lemmy a big project of the kind of social networks we want in the future will prevail. Even if that means sharing space with people you don’t politically agree 100% about everything, because that’s how a community works, different people working together.

    • Armok: God of Blood@lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      8 months ago

      The fact I got an instance ban means the admins were involved and were endorsing the tankies. The problem exists at the highest level of Lemmy.ml, not just in a handful of communities.

  • diplodocus@lemmy.sdf.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    8 months ago

    What’s funny is that Lemmy.ml users aren’t seeing this neolib nonsense because OP is temp. banned.

  • Gacrux@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    6
    arrow-down
    12
    ·
    8 months ago

    my face when i signed up for lemmy.ml 2 months ago for fun and now they’re being called 5 different political terms

    (their sign up verification test was “what is two plus two” back then)

    • sudneo@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      38
      arrow-down
      12
      ·
      8 months ago

      Be respectful of others.

      This comment is in clear violation of the rules of this community. Be better, if you want to criticize others.

        • sudneo@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          28
          arrow-down
          6
          ·
          8 months ago

          I had a look at your history, and you seem really incapable of behaving in a civil way, often using insults. I don’t think this is a good strategy to get your point across.

            • sudneo@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              17
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              8 months ago

              You see, it’s not required for me to agree with whom you are criticizing, to criticize your inability to be civil. So keep making as many strawmen you like. We are in a post complaining about user behavior/content and your behavior and content are both completely unacceptable in a community.

              Also, you can stop name-calling, this may have an effect when someone else values your opinion, I don’t.

      • h3ndrik@feddit.de
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        edit-2
        8 months ago

        Can you give us the name? I think just spreading FUD isn’t really helping and I also can’t do anything about it without more information.

          • h3ndrik@feddit.de
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            8 months ago

            Thanks for the clarification, I think you should have made that a bit more clear in the comment.

            But I agree. We shouldn’t only not listen to nazis and other bad people, but actively not invite them to our home in the first place. In my opinion that means giving them the boot and then defederating once they accumulate on instance dedicated to their cause.

      • matcha_addict@lemy.lol
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        8
        ·
        8 months ago

        I would indeed say:

        • yep, definitely don’t join it
        • neonazi white supremacist is not the same as Communist
        • Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          8 months ago

          Tankie is not the same as communist either. Tankies are genocide denial, authoritarian supporters, who are no better than Nazis.

      • woelkchen@lemmy.worldM
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        27
        ·
        8 months ago

        Would you apply that logic to a neonazi white supremacist community on Lemmy.world?

          • woelkchen@lemmy.worldM
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            11
            arrow-down
            28
            ·
            8 months ago

            you’re fine with sharing spaces with neonazi white supremacists.

            I’m not sharing a space with them when I block them, duh.

            • Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              39
              arrow-down
              7
              ·
              edit-2
              8 months ago

              No, you’re putting a blanket over them and pretending they’re not there any more.

              They would still be active on the site and harming the community at large, you personally would just be blind to it.

              • sudneo@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                4
                arrow-down
                7
                ·
                8 months ago

                No, you’re putting a blanket over them and pretending they’re not there any more.

                Isn’t defederation the same thing? Users won’t disappear (and they can also create accounts elsewhere…).

                • Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  13
                  ·
                  8 months ago

                  Blocked users or communities can still interact on the wider site and with you, you just won’t see them.

                  Defederated instances are completely barred from doing so.

                  It’s the difference between plugging your ears when someone else speaks vs locking them out of your house and not letting them get close.

              • woelkchen@lemmy.worldM
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                7
                arrow-down
                26
                ·
                edit-2
                8 months ago

                Have your instance block individual communities and users then.

                Blocking entire big-tent instances is “harming the community at large”.

                PS: Have fun on my block list. I’m not discussing any longer with someone who says I’m a neonazi sympathizer.

  • hamid@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    32
    arrow-down
    55
    ·
    8 months ago

    The least interesting thing in the world is people complaining about Hexbear, maybe that is why your comments were removed? Why can’t you just block their comms and ignore them? Works for me, I have an account on .ml I use that federates with Hexbear and when I see things that I think are uninteresting, stupid or immature I just move on like a normal person.

      • Kayn@dormi.zone
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        14
        ·
        8 months ago

        Do you think comments like these are swaying public opinion in your favor?

      • rambaroo@lemmynsfw.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        14
        arrow-down
        23
        ·
        edit-2
        8 months ago

        Lmao. Welcome to lemmy.world, where anyone left of center or who mildly criticizes the instance is a Russian bot or a secret hexbear user. Y’all have no clue how ridiculous you sound. The whole instance is like a giant neolib /r/politics circle jerk

      • hamid@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        15
        arrow-down
        34
        ·
        edit-2
        8 months ago

        I am on lemmy.world so that I don’t see Hexbear, but ok. Yeah sorry that I think people bitching about a bunch of immature posters is worth paying attention to. Imagine being OP and going on a crusade that is literally the least important thing in the world? If you think that this is Hexbear “outreach” instead of learning how to be an adult and ignore things without calling for their censor then I literally feel bad for you.

        • Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          11
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          edit-2
          8 months ago

          > Avoids Hexbear

          > Openly derides people who have negative opinions about Hexbear

          Maybe try being consistent and people won’t think you’re fake.

          • hamid@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            8 months ago

            Nice edit of your comment to be totally different from what I replied to.

            I have a negative opinion of people who need to make grandstanding posts about something that is easy to deal with on your own. This is completely consistent if you don’t have a child’s understanding of the world.