I really hope valve can get VAC into a good space so it can be an example of doing anti-cheat well without having to be a rootkit. Looks like we’re heading towards that point. Hopefully this change will last
John Macdonald is cooking the best fucking server-sided anticheat with all that compute power in Bellevue. Lets see him become a master chef!
I’ve been thinking for a while we need more server side stuff. No worries about infringing on the consumers computer then. Hopefully that ends up becoming something good!
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I’ve often thought that the cheaters should be simply shadow banned, and only match with other cheaters. Let them play against the other cheaters and see how well they do.
I always thought there should be an “unlimited class” in the olympics where you can take anything you want. I want to see wildly drugged up athletes competing with each other.
I always thought professional sports games don’t have enough good ol’ gladiatorial bloodshed. If youre getting paid tens of millions per year for sports you damn well better be doing more than moving an object around.
Look, all im saying is any sports game can be made more watchable by giving players a side-armed melee wepon and allowed one swing per play iteration with no redcards. Put back in some selective pressure to turn those middle aged pudgy players and coaches into real athletes and tacticians.
According to D’Souza, he created the Games because he believes that athletes are entitled to do what they wish with their own bodies
If that’s been agreed upon as the ruleset for their competitions, I agree
and that the International Olympic Committee (IOC) is corrupt and not paying them enough.
Also agree, it’s the individual countries that usually pay their athletes to athlete and uh… Yeah, they get sponsors for a reason, don’t they. I know a few people who’ve competed at several olympic games and just being top 10 or something in the world in your sport doesn’t exactly get you swimming in money.
Caaaaaarl, that kills people.
Don’t worry, you can still be buried with the medal if you win
I’d love to play matches with aimbots.
I’m not good at games. Don’t care enough to git gud. Certainly wouldn’t ruin anyone’s experience by cheating. But it’d be fun to see what the game is like with everyone having perfect aim.
Cheaters aren’t only aimbots. In fact, most of the time they’re not even using aimbot because that’s one of the easiest one to tell that someone is cheating. Most of the time they can just see everyone through walls. But if it’s cheater vs cheater and they don’t care about being caught then it’s not fun or interesting because you just use aim + speed + noclip (I assume that’s possible) and just kill everyone the second the round starts.
Yeah…that’s why I said “aimbots”.
I think Valve should have only recorded which players were cheating for a few weeks, then ban them all at once. Would avoid them disabling cheats now they know and would also make it more difficult to figure out what exactly is VAC detecting.
Cheaters also are part of why I like coop games so much more. Join a random game with a cheater, doesn’t matter too much and you can leave. Play with a group of friends and that also goes a long way to eliminating them.
GTA Online does (did?) this, most cheating wouldn’t get you banned and instead just placed in cheater lobbies.
Rockstar botched that system, I can attest as I used numerous different mod menus on GTA V Online, most well developed menus will let you alter yours (and others) in-game reputation by spamming the commend/report functions.
Spawning in UFO’s an such was the highlight of GTA V Online for me, haven’t touched the game since I moved to Linux, I hear it’s broken due to the new anti-cheat.
They made it much easier to setup private lobbies for friends and crew. Haven’t played in public lobbies in years.
While private lobbies certainly help weed out the bullshit, if a modder was determined enough they could copy your Rockstar ID and use that to follow you from lobby to lobby regardless of its privacy restrictions.
Logging someones Rockstar ID might as well make them your friend, depending on the mod menu they could receive notifications on when you’re online/offline.
Here is a common mod menu that was popular prior to the anti-cheat update, I think they have shutdown now.
From what you’re saying, it sounds like you have to be in a public lobby first, then hop into private for them to get your id. Can they get your id without ever being in the lobby or any contact at all? Currently you can just go into single player and start a private lobby. Idk how the enhanced edition does, I’m assuming it’s the same. I haven’t played in a couple years, so getting into a private lobby might have changed.
it sounds like you have to be in a public lobby first, then hop into private for them to get your id. Can they get your id without ever being in the lobby or any contact at all?
This is not true, if you knew a persons social-club username you could search for the ID associated with it. I can’t find many tools online except for this one no idea of this works or not, I’m sure there are guides to obtain R*ID’s elsewhere.
That’s very concerning. It’s wild it even exist.
And they did it without installing root kits on our computers.
I used to “cheat” in Mass Effect 3 CooP, using cheat engine to buy those weapon/character crates en masse.
Screw that grind. It was such a sublime MP game EA bolted the absolute stupidest loot box system to. Everyone in the platinum tiers did it; it didn’t hurt anyone’s experience. That game was so good everyone played for the sake of the game anyway, not the trickle of unlocks.
As a side “cheat”, I used to host modded public lobbies with crazy mixes of enemies, like all banshees one wave or “ranger” swarms of scions+ravagers another and such. A few players left, but the most common reaction was “holy shit, this is mad” and players stayed for the fun.
…I guess what I’m saying is, screw malicious cheaters.
But I also don’t like the idea of locking out modding either, or enforcing particularly asinine P2P schemes. I suppose the kind of MP games even conducive to modding don’t really exist anymore though :(
I mean they do try to lock down the client, but the thing is the majority of anger comes at cheaters in games that are designed to have players compete against another, like CounterStrike, The Finals, RUST, COD, Battlefield, etc…
Community servers and co-op games that don’t have the same structure usually have less problems with that sort of thing. I haven’t played Mass Effect 3, but if it’s a co-op game I’d imagine players would be more okay with it (especially if you explained what you’re doing) compared to something like a CS2 competitive match.
(Also some games like RUST make a clear distinction between official, community, and Modded Servers, and allow the host to pick their own rules. You could find a modded or community server that allows that sort of behavior, for instance.)
Edit: also, there are games with intentional modding implementations for co-op and server multiplayer play, like Project Zomboid.
Hypothesis: people who cheat in video games are scum bags in other aspects of life. I wonder if anyone’s done a study on that. I feel like the kind of person who has to cheat in video games is a broken sad sack.
It depends if you’re only talking about multi-player or including solo too. I see no harm in customizing one’s experience with cheats in single player.
I would further argue that it’s a bad behaviour only if one cheats in competitive multiplayer games.
Almost a decade ago, I was having fun playing Left 4 Dead 2. There is this survival mode where you and your human teammates play against neverending waves of zombies. In one stage, there was someone who invented a way to defend yourselves on a bridge by all four players strictly crouching and shooting straight to the front, at the far end of the bridge. If anyone runs out of ammo, they walk a few steps to pick up a new M4 and come right back. Cooperation is the key in surviving for more than 15 minutes, and everyone must strictly obey this play style.
Anyway, the way to communicate between players were limited. It was hard to tell everyone what to do by typing. I downloaded a mod which grants us infinite ammo, that way, nobody needed to get up to get a new gun. In late game, there were three Tanks spawning and charging at us, that even with perfect timing it was hard to defeat all three. The infinite ammo absolutely helped, and I think I just created an new way of playing this stage which depends more on one’s knowledge than skill.
I ended up had a great time with those strangers who played with me, who unlocked the gold medal of that stage, and way beyond the survival time requirement.
I think that the (only) relevant factor is whether everyone else knows and wants it. Suppose your mod affected only yourself (so other players wouldn’t know about it) and you played in a way that was mostly reasonable, but providing a little bit more covering fire than should be possible. Your teammates might still have fun while they’re playing, though only if you don’t overdo it; but even then, they probably wouldn’t be too happy to discover your cheating once they’d already finished the map. If you give everyone infinite ammo, and tell them about it then that’s fine, but because they know about it, not because they benefit from it.
For that matter, cheating in a competitive server set up for that purpose can be fun (though it can also be wildly unbalanced, especially if the game is asymmetrical)
Nah, if someone on my PvE team is cheating/exploiting that still ruins the experience. I play games like that to get better, the skill improvement is a huge part of the experience for me.
I was blissfully unaware, probably because I’m not cheating scum.
Couldn’t have happened to a better community of people.
Fuck cheaters.
IMO, cheating is just taking away all the fun of the game. The cheater didn’t have to get gud to be able to win, and the victim is denied any recourse or any fun in playing the game. Bluntly, I have absolutely no sympathy at all for these kinds of people. If you suck at the game and need to use cheats to win, maybe don’t fucking play it competitively?
There’s a reason I’ve kept my counterstrike antics to private games among friends and local matches against bots. I have no interest in larder boards. I just want to have fun. Dying over and over before you can even do any damage, isn’t fun.
If you’re a cheater, get wrecked.
Bravo valve. Bravo.
Depending on who it is, and it’s obviously not even close to the vast majority of cheaters I’d imagine, there are people who cheat in tournaments and the like where they can win serious money, or people cheat so they can look good in front of viewers who pay them money. At that point there is both a practical reason for why they do it and also an excellent reason to get them to fuck all the way off because they’re not just cheating but are also theives.
I’ve worked in esports for a bit and there’s definitely cheats out there that pros use. When utilised well you won’t even notice when directly spectating or when the player is streaming. They’re designed to help extremely good players just that little bit extra needed to become a top-tier player.
Those “pro-grade” cheats don’t come cheap though. I’ve heard figures in the 400-600/month range multiple times. These would also work on the special tournament clients used by professional players.
I never cheat in multiplayer. But if a single-player game has a “hacking” minigame, I’m absolutely loading up Ghidra & GDB and figuring out how to actually hack around it. Pretty much always harder than just playing the minigame, but more fun.
I used to cheat in GunZ online, but to be fair, I was like 11, the game wasn’t competitive, and leveling up for cooler gear and to unlock new maps was HARD work.
Eventually I’d git semi gud and stopped bothering with the cheats. But it was fun as hell flying through the map with no clip, as a ball of fire that killed everything except other cheaters with godmode lmao
Woohoo to being responsible for others not having any fun playing a game!
Woo! Woooooo.
What?
I don’t know why you would admit this.
Because they were 11. Lol.
LETSGOOOOOO CS2 VIABLE AGAAAIN
I don’t generally have a problem with anti-cheat mechanisms except when they require things like secure-boot or allowing me to do what I want with my machine.
Ha! Get fucked, losers. Cheaters ruin the fun for everyone, so I hope every last one gets permabanned.
You cannot permaban a cheater for the saame reason you shouldn’t have death penalty, people need to be able to challenge the decision which should trigger a process
As a piece of software, I highly doubt there isn’t a single bug in VAC that would cause a false-positive
When you suspect someone of being highly dangerous you put them in jail even if they are not convicted yet. And when it turns out they are innocent they are released.
A ban is like jail not like a death sentence …
More like getting kicked out of a club, you can still go to other clubs.
*wreaking havoc
Though I kinda like the wrecking sentiment
TIL wreaking is a word. Whops
Wauughhh!
Uaughh!
Ahahaha!
Cry some more, kernel anti cheat stans!
… cry some more.
Not sure if this was intentional but your comment reads like classic Halo Elite death screams. I love it. Fits perfectly with imagining execs at denuvo seeing the success of VAC.
Close.
It costs $400,000 to hire me as a ghost writer…
… for 12 seconds.
At this point I nearly want to “donate” to Valve…
That’s what we call having hundred of untouched games in the steam library. Right?
Can I write them off on my taxes if I never play them?
Become a game reviewer and write them off as a business expense
I might be able to finally beat the standard deduction!
Ig buying a game will give Valve + the dev/publisher Money (cause Valve Takes 30%)
Yeah. Go buy hollow Knight, or schedule 1, or anything from an indie studio. Support both good devs and studios, and valve. And you even get a fun game to go with your support. Honestly, everyone wins.
… Does anyone still wonder why I boycotted all other gaming platforms other than steam?
You think you’re going to get anti-cheat this good from the likes of epic? Ha.
… Does anyone still wonder why I boycotted all other gaming platforms other than steam?
what about GOG?
GOG is awesome but limited - I can’t think of any modern multiplayer game sold on GOG. Lot of great singleplayer ones though.
I assume Steam makes it easier to make multiplayer games then GOG?
Much more so - I think largely because of Steam’s game server networking and update infrastructure.
Also anti-cheats (of any sort) and DRM-free games are kind of oil and water.
Yep, and i know this Cause one of my friends has that steamworks sdk and he finds steams api easier to work with (for multiplayer)
Gabe needs another megayacht
According to quick google, he only has 4 ships in his fleet (with fifth being built right now), and 5 ships is a very small amount for any respectable admiral.
Jesus Christ… Why are people like this?
… Because when it comes to billionaires, gaben is the least of our concern?
Don’t get me wrong, billionaires are always bad, but not all billionaires are hated.
You won’t see Bezos doing anything that helps people, not unless it will line his pockets. Valve doesn’t charge us for using vac, they’re unlikely to sell a lot of new copies of CS2 by making it harder to cheat in the game. They have nearly zero financial reasons to bother with any of this. They did it anyways.
Does anyone have proof that this is less/more effective than kernel level anti cheat?
Please provide factual evidence, not hearsay. That’s % cheaters detected vs % cheaters not detected scaled by the overall player base.
Nobody can have proof of that, because no such proof can ever exist. How would you ever have a proven correct number of cheaters not detected?
So what’s the point of an anti cheat then if you don’t know how many people are cheating, how many people are not, and you don’t have confidence that the anti cheat is 99% effective at the very least?
It can be tested in closed systems but it’s not something you can easily define the success rate of because the cheats are constantly evolving and game updates close or introduce vulnerabilities.
There is still value of having an anti-cheat even if it does not have a high chance of catching cheaters, so long as it keeps false positives to a minimum.
“there is still value of having an anti cheat even though it does not have a high chance of catch cheaters”
That doesn’t make any sense. LOL. What’s the value then of the anti cheat?
You can die in a car accident, even if you wear a seat belt.
LOL what’s the value of a seatbelt? You’re either very dull or a troll. Maybe both.
That’s a car not a video game. You don’t need to insult me you dimwit. Apples and oranges.
You failed to understand the parallel between my example and the topic at hand, so I’m proud to announce that you’ve passed the idiot test with flying colors!
Pro tip: apples and oranges can be compared and contrasted. They have a large variety of similarities and differences.
Please provide factual evidence, not hearsay. That’s % cheaters detected vs % cheaters not detected scaled by the overall player base.
Yeah good luck providing such evidence for any kind of game or anti-cheat.
Personally, I hate kernel level ac and it made me actually stop playing few games and avoid similar ones. Had enough of mere games screwing up with my PC through EAC and EAC ignoring my reports for years.
There is evidence kernel level anti cheat can still be bypassed.
Please provide proof that games with kernel level anti cheat have the same rate of cheating as games without it.
A game blocks cheats or it doesn’t. Valorant certainly still has cheaters. Only cheat providers and gaming companies will have those numbers and I’m not sure they are going to release them.
Thanks for letting me know. So we don’t have any proof at all that these anti cheats are effective? I’m not even saying which anti cheat. Just saying in general.
Depends on your definition of effective. Both are still certainly too much. I haven’t seen one that’s 100% effective.
What do you mean definition of effective lmfao. An anti cheat should stop cheaters. If I go on counter strike and I find a cheater then that anti cheat is ineffective. If I go on valorant and don’t find a cheater that is effective. It’s not that complicated.
Then I’d argue there isn’t an effective anti cheat. Valorant definitely has cheaters.
