Unused ram is wasted ram. Change my mind
This applies when RAM is used as temporary cache or something that can be instantly freed the moment it is needed otherwise. This doesn’t really work for justifying higher RAM use by KDE, unless you would never need that RAM for anything else anyway.
I use KDE because it is good, though. Also I don’t think KDE even uses more RAM than other DEs that are designed to be lightweight. Last time I compared, it used the same or less memory as LXDE.
Also I don’t think KDE even uses more RAM than other DEs that are designed to be lightweight. Last time I compared, it used the same or less memory as LXDE.
Firefox without any website loaded uses more RAM than a full Plasma session.
The difference being that in the one of those cases you still need to open a browser instance before you are able to browse the web.
The difference being that in the one of those cases you still need to open a browser instance before you are able to browse the web.
Firefox is absolutely unusable on that PC. Falkon runs much better.
And KDE can be even more efficient if you go into the settings and tweak things a bit, turning off some unnecessary features that are on by default.
Also I don’t think KDE even uses more RAM than other DEs that are designed to be lightweight. Last time I compared, it used the same or less memory as LXDE.
Yep. KDE is feature-rich, but it’s also highly optimized these days, and the RAM usage is actually competitive with the best of them.
You can get RAM usage lower on a very stripped down, barebones system, but if you want a full ‘normal computer’ desktop experience that has all the things you’d expect a computer to have, you’d be hard-pressed to find one that uses significantly less RAM than KDE. (Yes, there are some that get lower … but not a lot lower. And unless you’re running on some extremely limited hardware, are those extra 20MB of RAM really going to make a difference in your everyday life?)
It’s just really oversimplifying memory usage. OS designers had that same thought decades ago already, so they introduced disk caching. If data gets loaded from disk, then it won’t be erased from memory as soon as it isn’t needed anymore. It’s only erased, if something else requests memory and this happens to be the piece of “free” memory that the kernel thinks is the most expendable.
For example, this is what the situation on my system looks like:
free -h total used free shared buff/cache available Mem: 25Gi 9,8Gi 6,0Gi 586Mi 9,3Gi 15GiOut of my 32 GiB physical RAM, 25 GiB happens to be usable by my applications, of which:
- 9.8 GiB is actually reserved (
used), - 9.2 GiB is currently in use for disk caching and buffers (
buff/cache), and - only 6.1 GiB is actually unused (
free).
If you run
cat /proc/meminfo, you can get an even more fine-grained listing.I’m sure, I could get the number for actually unused memory even lower, if I had started more applications since booting my laptop. Or as the Wikipedia article I linked above puts it:
Usually, all physical memory not directly allocated to applications is used by the operating system for the page[/disk] cache.
So, if you launch a memory-heavy application, it will generally cause memory used for disk caching to be cleared, which will slow the rest of your system down somewhat.
Having said all that, I am on KDE myself. I do not believe, it’s worth optimizing for the speed of the system, if you’re sacrificing features that would speed up your usage of it. Hell, it ultimately comes down to how happy you are with your computer, so if it makes you happy, then even gaudy eye-candy can be the right investment.
I just do not like these “unused RAM is wasted RAM” calls, because it is absolutely possible to implement few features while using lots of memory, and that does slow your system down unnecessarily.- 9.8 GiB is actually reserved (
I read this same principle in an arch or gentoo forum/manual. I can’t even think of an argument against it tho? Unused anything is wasted by definition isn’t it? I know I’m missing something obvious somehow
The problem with the simplified phrase is that your computer is expected to run more than one program at a time.
If you are only running one program, it should certainly use all the RAM of your system.
However, your desktop, laptop, phone, tablet, game console, etc. all run hundreds or thousands of programs at the same time. Each individual application should optimize RAM usage so the whole system can work together.
Another commenter in the chain talks about disk caching, which is what the phrase “unused ram is wasted ram” came from
It’s been coopted by application programmers who don’t want to optimize their software
“i paid for the whole RAM imma use the whole RAM”
–me in 2010 using console commands to turn off all the particle effects in Portal so that I could boost my fps to ~20 w/ minimum settings (the laptop did not have a graphics card lmao)
Basically a zoetrope at that point.
Reminds me when I first started pc gaming. I even doubled my RAM to 512mb! I found a mod that basically turned everything into basic polygons where the walls were just red planes, characters looked like minecraft, the guns looked like they were done by a brutalist architect after being verbally described to them. Ran a mean 45 fps, but you had to use something like CCleaner to clear the ram in between rounds.
Omg! CCleaner nostalgia!
I also had some sort Windows background process suppression software that would squeeze 2–3 more fps out for me. At the cost of occasionally bluescreening me lol
Kids these days don’t know how easy they’ve got it with native Linux game support and Steam Proton!
I got plenty of ram. We’re using it.
KDE is a LOT lighter than it used to be. The migration to plasma was ugly but they definitely got their shit together. Resource wise, it’s fine. You can run it in a pi.
GNOME is unapologetic resource wise. It’s like living with an asshole roommate that doesn’t understand why everyone hates him. It’s not getting better. KDE is.
While I agree with you, it’s not like GNOME consumes so many ressources that it affects the average person’s experience.
Personally, I think GNOME is much more self explanatory. Whatever environment you come from, even if you have no computing experience at all, you will probably get stuff done with GNOME.
With Plasma, I noticed that people with low tech-skills struggle a lot more, because they are less crazy about making everything super duper extra obvious (especially how to configure stuff)
Where is maximize? Where is minimize? I see windows on the screen but no window buttons other than close.
It’s windows 8 all over again. A touch interface whether you like it or not.
I just prefer tiling windows managers idk
KDE Plasma can do that, too, via a KWinscript: https://codeberg.org/anametologin/Krohnkite 🙃
On a more serious note, this is a genuine recommendation. I’ve been using Krohnkite and similar scripts for a few years now, and they’re absolutely fine, especially since Plasma 6 introduced a native, manual tiling mechanism, which they just have to configure.
Especially for newbies wanting to try out tiling window management, without having to figure out a minimalist environment like a bare window manager, this is a great entrypoint IMHO.right? I thought twms were almost exclusively for workflow efficiency only and this was like 15 years ago lol
They’re for us dorks who like to like to chase efficiency in both screen real estate and keyboard navigation. A nice TWM combined with either a 21:9 or (my personal favorite) 16:18 ratio is pure bliss.
Just give me more monitors and I’m happy.
That’s fine. I’m running two DualUps (16:18) with a TWM, and it’s amazing. I wish they weren’t a discontinued display, or else I’d add a third.
So that’s effectively 2 monitors in a single case?
Stop, I can only get so erect.
It’s literally two panels without a bezel between. You can run full-screen with one input, or go into PIP mode and drive each individual panel with a different input.
And apparently discontinued. Goddammit.
I like tiling window managers, because I run out of screen real estate and actually close windows. On a regular window manger, I will open dozens of windows and keep them open for many sessions.
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It’s astonishing how little RAM KDE needs for its features.
yeah, kde is da best… i tried to use some of the others but kde just works so much better
KDE is premier for a modern system, but I have a handful of low-power devices where XFCE or LXQt are a lot more useful despite disliking their interfaces.
XFCE is great for mid-range old devices, and LXQt is great for dogshit old devices.
XFCE is great for mid-range old devices, and LXQt is great for dogshit old devices.
What’s this device in your scale from old doghit to old mid-range?
Runs a full Plasma session just fine. The problem isn’t the desktop, it’s the web browsers, especially Firefox. Falkon runs OK.
firefox eats ram, but steam web process are worse. computer slow? kill steam. idk what browser engine it is but long term steam being open is bad.
KDE can be considered heavy only if your idea of a desktop use is to launch it and stop right there.
But normally after that you launch apps and that’s where the magic happens: it is so integrated, apps barely add any more RAM usage on top.
So instead of comparing DE x and y, compare what a desktop actively used looks like: browser? office suite? file manager? drawing app?
Only then will you be able to compare you RAM usage from one DE to another. Everything else is comparing cars fuel economy when they’re all idle.
Yeah I dont get the obsession with optimization
Seriously, you can always just buy more RAM…
^(oh. oh dear me.)
Tbh most optimizations save so little ram thats its impossible to notice, if you have 16gb or hell even 8gb of ram its hard to notice the minuscule amounts saved with a WM especially a Wayland WM such as Sway/Niri and especially Hyperland.
XFCE has always seemed to cover most any “normal” desktop experience I’ve ever needed, still even beating Windows hands down (as if that’s difficult, especially these days).
Granted, I don’t use KDE Connect or … what ever else KDE has over XFCE. The styling options are fun, but I’m too old to care about style these days.
I have NOT compared them to confirm any of the supposed lesser resource usage of XFCE, so if you’re going to roast me, tell me why (preferrably with direct data so we can all know).
XFCE is great, although a little stale and slow to evolve. I used it for many years. Still remember when Thunar finally got thumbnail previews.
I used KDE early on… around SuSE 7.3. It was a trash fire for a long time. Wildly unstable, would take so long to compile it was basically a meme in the community before memes existed in mainstream, and it was like every single random idea was implemented. Zero cohesiveness. Thumbed their noses at any kind of UI/UX standards. Gnome, of all things was the more solid option if you wanted a “desktop.” Weird to think about considering how that ended up. It has come a longgggggggggg way. Still not for me but after messing with it recently I was pleasantly surprised.
Never liked the look of KDE. It is nothing to do with the tech or features. I think qt is a very solid foundation and my current desktop is built on Qt/QML. KDE just feels Windows-ish somehow and that’s probably part of what makes it great for a lot of people. That is a huge win for Linux adoption. Just not for me.
I always liked Gnome. It was simple and felt fresh even though I hate gtk/gobject etc. And I still keep Gnome as a backup but it think development is being held back by being built on layers of shit.
After a long time going back and forth I think I am all in on Niri now. Regular tilers never worked for me but somehow scrollers do. It is weird how much of a difference it makes for me. It is possible to build a complete desktop now with Quickshell and a bit of a backend for some services which makes the Gnome desktop and Plasma look crazy over engineered and I don’t know why the Cosmic people even bothered. I don’t see how Gnome can keep up as its is such a horrible system to program. DankMaterialShell is reasonably usable for starters but I might even start working on something. It looks like fun.
All main desktop environment users triggered in 3…2…1…
But seriously, as a KDE Plasma user, I have to note it’s extremely customizable. It doesn’t have to look or behave like Windows at all, it’s just a default.
An entirely different look? Sure! All sorts of completely customizable shortcuts? Yep! Tiling? If you so wish!
The thing that made Plasma my forever choice is that whatever I want to make it, it delivers. It has settings for everything.
Here are just two examples of the non-standard KDE looks by the way:
Is the left panel in the first screenshot just a bunch of System Monitor widgets stuck together? Or is it a different widget that displays all this information in this way?
Not my screenshot, but yeah, this seems to be several standard KDE widgets bundled together. You can always open System Monitor app, though, if you want to check your system through a customizable, organized dashboard. Or, like it’s done here, group standard widgets to enjoy them all in a neat fashion.
(Both can be set up to show you literally anything, and you’d be surprised how many sensors are in your computer)
The windows approach isn’t for everyone but there’s a pretty solid consensus that nobody does it better than KDE. (I mean the Cinnamon people have an opinion but it’s doesn’t matter because reasons)
The reasons projects like this work at all is the pressures are different form the Apple and windows shit. Microsoft and Apple release one UI for their full computers and it has to work for as many people as possible. That sounds great until you realize you are locked in a room with a bunch of boomers wondering why this HOA only has installed 7 speed bumps on this street.
Love KDE.
You’ve just convinced me to wipe my Arch install with SwayWM and go back to Fedora with KDE. I really just love all of the features that it has!
Funny, I switched from Fedora with RiverWM to CachyOS (arch based) with KDE.
…why not just install KDE in arch?
Using pacman and yay feels playing Russian roulette on my system, since there’s no rollbacks
Why not use time shift?
Then don’t use it. Arch supports flatpak appimage as well.
Last time I’ve checked KDE couldn’t handle independent virtual desktops per monitor and my tiling manger can so…
Yeah, it likely won’t support that any time soon, because it’s incompatible with Extended Window Manager Hints standard.
Having said that, Plasma 6.6 (which just came out) allows for having only a single virtual desktop on non-primary monitors, which is all I wanted, personally…
Cosmic does if memory serves. I haven’t run it since late alpha but it might be worth a try again.
KDE is neat and does what I want a DE to do
I’ve settled for lxqt + niri because I was too lazy to rice my desktop and lxqt looked good enough, I don’t know what features I’m missing but until I need them I’m doing good.
