Beeper reverse-engineered iMessage to bring blue bubble texts to Android users::The push to bring iMessage to Android users today adds a new contender. A startup called Beeper, which had been working on a multi-platform messaging
Why is this even a need to be solved? are people that stupidly superficial about the color of y fucking message bubble? (im not american but where im from literally nobody wiorth their salt gives a hoot)
are people that stupidly superficial
Yes.
understandable i suppose, a good deterrent tho if they speak about it openly
The color of the bubble is only important because it helps iPhone users know who not to add to group chats, since the presence of a non-imessage user in an iMessage group chat downgrades the entire chat to grainy photos, no reactions/ read receipts, voice memos, typing indicators, etc. I don’t blame them at all, many of them don’t use any third party messaging apps because iMessage is built in and gives them everything that other chat apps have, with the benefit that they don’t have to convince anybody to install it because all their iPhone owning friends have it preinstalled.
are people that stupidly superficial about the color of y fucking message bubble?
Yes, apparently.
It’s not just about the color of the bubbles. I have Wi-Fi at work but poor cell signal. Because I have an iPhone and my husband has an android, we have to use another chat client to text while I’m at work. No cell signal means no texting android phones for me, because I can only text people with iMessage over Wi-Fi.
Plus, remember: kids have phones. They do get bullied over chat bubble colors, just like I got bullied for wearing clothes from Walmart in school. It doesn’t have to be this way, it’s Apple’s fault for making iMessage a walled garden.
Is it even a garden though? I don’t see any benefit in using it over something like Signal other than it coming pre-installed on your phone.
Sure, but they wont. The insidious thing about iMessenger is that it isnt iChat. It is the apple default text messaging app. Which is good because it means that all your messages are in one place, and you dont have to try to convince your older family member to install a 3rd party chat app. You just have a chat app. This tricks users not into thinking that texting is just better on apple.
But its bad because it only works between other apple products and users. This is objectively Apple’s shortcoming, however there are enough iPhones in the wild and enough people in the US who defaulted to just hitting the sms/mms icon instead of downloading a chat app that the odd man out might be the android user. And it’s not just about the green bubble being green. If you invite an a green bubble to a group text then all your rich chat messenger features go away and it turns into an MMS thread. Which is objectively bad.
But yes they could just download and use whatsapp,line, telegram, signal, facebook messenger(and in the early days things like aim/yim/msn) But they dont. The fact is their default messenger app works, and it works well with most people they talk to so the problem is the green text.
It’s especially silly when you consider the “there’s an app for that” generation of user and so many things are apps but they refuse to engage on other chat channels. People download different apps to get dates, the navigate, to browse websites that shouldnt even be apps, to order food, order groceries, order taxi’s, but a chat app just to talk with you? ehhhhhhhhh.
You know honestly, now that I’ve typed that I’m not sure. I don’t do a lot of texting audio snippets or other stuff other people do, so maybe, maybe not.
The problem is, I should be able to text people at default without worrying I have cell signal or if group chats are going to work correctly, instead of needing to ask people what 3rd party chat service they prefer.
needing to ask people what 3rd party chat service they prefer
Yeah Signal’s great and all, but my spouse’s family refuses to use anything but WhatsApp, half my family uses FB Messenger while the other half use Discord (and they are feuding about it), the older folks in my hobby group refuse to learn anything but the default text on their phone (that group chat is an unmanageable NIGHTMARE), and anything from work uses teams…except the US folks who use slack, and now my friends want to get me on Signal, too? Relevant XKCD.
The solution to my problem is not yet another messaging app. I just want ONE inbox!
I’ve been pretty happy with Beeper so far. There are some features that aren’t quite as good as using each app natively, yet, but I think they’re off to a great start considering the sheer scale and variety of interfaces they’re working with. It even gives me tools to deal with the hobby chat anarchy, and now I can send default SMS messages from my computer!
Beeper Mini is working towards an all-in-one app. We’ll see what happens
i had no idea that having green chat bubbles upset people so much.
The issue isn’t so much the message color. It’s the ability to send videos that aren’t potato quality and other media.
Which should go away anyway once Apple bakes in RCS support
Which they will surely do with no caveats whatsoever.
They’re doing the GSMA standard and nothing else. I think they refuse to play ball with any standard Google controls either directly or indirectly.
They’re not doing encryption, because Google is using their own.
RCS is too little, too late. It sucks. I refuse to ever use it.
oh, can’t android users receive high-quality videos and photos? after 16 years of smartphones, you’d think they’d have that figured out…
It’s not the android side that’s failing, it’s Apples refusal to implement anything other than SMS for cross ecosystem compatibility.
@Mountaineer @gregorum Apple is going to implement RCS, the EU put pressure on them.
However I am surprised that Beeper was able to do this in software. With everyone else using an Apple device as a proxy, I figured the protocol required a magic handshake from the TPM chip in an Apple device. That would be easy to do.
There’s some gotchas in Apples statement:
They have promised to implement “RCS Universal Profile”
This means the bare minimum, not the advanced features implemented by Google and Samsung etc.
An example of a missing feature from Universal Profile is end to end encryption.They also said: “This will work alongside iMessage, which will continue to be the best and most secure messaging experience for Apple users.”
The implication of this is that it won’t be in the iMessage app, it will be in a separate but official app, siloing your Android friends from your iPhone friends.When this comes out, every European is going to shrug and keep using Whatsapp.
@Mountaineer Encryption needs to be added to the standard, and then Apple will be expected to implement it. Hopefully the EU knocks some heads together and makes this happen.
WhatsApp is owned by Facebook and has ads, which is two good reasons not to use it. Europeans are just as “stuck with a bad standard” as Americans are here.
I use RCS quite a bit and like it. Although nothing on a phone should be regarded as truly secure.
what? that’s not the implication at all. it’ll work just like SMS does now. same app, just RCS instead of SMS
it’ll work just like SMS does now
I agree with this part of your statement 100%.
It will work POORLY.Whether it’s in the same app or simply a different colour like SMS is currently, it’ll be a half assed implementation, designed to segregate your iphone and android friends.
Got an existing iphone group chat? Bet you can’t add an RCS participant to it.
Create a new RCS group chat so you can include everyone? Bet it’s missing features that you’d get in imessage.
Receive a high resolution video from a friend via imessage? Forward that to another friend via RCS and they’ll receive 5 blurry pixels.And throughout all of this, apple will blame the RCS protocol and say “We’re actively working with GSMA to improve RCS”.
No one trusts apple for the very simple reason that they have a habit of saying the quiet part out loud: Tim Cook Says ‘Buy Your Mom An iPhone’
RCS is too liitle, too late. It sucks. People have issues with it today… It’s less reliable than SMS, and it’s E2EE is problematic.
Fortunately much of the world has moved away from SMS already, so those folks aren’t coming back. I try real hard to get people away from it.
@BearOfaTime I have RCS and use it. It works fine. I have not noticed significant reliability problems, using Google’s servers. If there are problems it’s likely the carrier’s garbage implementation.
There is no standard here in the USA except SMS.
It works fine, for you. When it works is irrelevant. When it doesn’t is what matters.
Go to reddit look for RCS problem posts. It’s terrible.
Even worse, I can send high quality images and video from android to iPhone if they’re both on Verizon. When the iPhone sends it back, it’s trashed.
That said, SMS/MMS suck. SMS has a known, published loss of messages at about 12%. What the hell?
iOS can’t send hi quality videos or images over SMS. It’s a choice made by Apple.
I can send large videos (more than 50mb, for sure) over SMS from my Android phone on Verizon to a Verizon iPhone. They receive it in same quality. When they send it back, the iPhone butchers it.
Verizon, unlike other carriers, doesn’t seem to have an MMS size limit.
That is not the issue. At all. Lol
You need to think of iMessage as Google messages, Whatsapp, telegram, signal, etc. Except this is only installed on iPhones and they want everyone to know it. It’s arrogant and stupid. The app could just be released for Android and it would be no different than the others I mentioned.
It’s gatekeeping.
Android to Android, sure.
But Apple and Google refuse to play nicely with each other, so Android to Iphone or Iphone to Android both suck.
It’s not a lack of capability, it’s the refusal to implement it to try and force users to pick a side.
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To be fair, Google’s messaging plans and implementations have been all over the place for a decade. Apple still should have been more proactive. They promised iMessage would come to Android until they realized how much of a moat it became for their business.
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I don’t really care which of them is responsible for it not working decently, that’s why I didn’t point the finger at one in particular.
Point is, it’s between these two companies to agree on a solution that works for both of them and actually implement it. Yet after all this time, they still haven’t to the detriment of consumers globally.
I’ll believe the IOS RCS implementation when it’s actually released. Promises from corporations are worthless.
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Android uses RCS now, a higher quality and more feature rich standard than SMS. However… Apple hasn’t added it to iOS, so it doesn’t work to send to iPhones and they receive bog-standard SMS from Android devices.
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I’ve seen a lot of people complain online about getting dropped by a tinder date/etc because they swapped numbers and the other person realized they didn’t have an iPhone from the green text. Probably best not to date someone who would drop you over that, but there’s a weird elitism over blue/green texts.
Weird, is that an excursively US American thing? I am European and have never experienced “phone racism”.
Nah bro, if they bought an iPhone that means I can’t trust them with money. Screw that noise
As someone who started with Android, went to iOS, back to Android, and stayed with iOS I feel like you’re not trying to understand why some people choose an iPhone. I personally chose it because of the incredible battery life.
Skip the rest of this if you don’t want to hear a rambling mess of my phone history. There is a bit at the end regarding prices and why I own what I own now.
I had an HTC Desire, Samsung Galaxy S2, HTC One M7, Sony Xperia Z1, iPhone 7, Nexus 6P, iPhone X, iPhone 12 Pro, iPhone 15.
I’ve rooted a bunch of the early Android phones, loved having removable batteries and having expandable storage. As the platform evolved and started following Apple’s lead on design decisions (no removable batteries, no expandable storage, etc.) I was wondering why I was still with Android. After having a the Xperia I noticed that the battery didn’t last as long as it used to and if I remember right (possibly not, a bit tipsy) the Xperia was advertised as having a very long battery but it didn’t last very long past a year or so (was getting less than a full day and having to charge when I was driving home). I also had how slow Sony was to get OS upgrades it I decided to try a new phone. At the time I cared more about the battery and the iPhone 7 was my next try. It was amazing, I didn’t actually enable iMessage because I hated the bubble bs that I heard about. Eventually the 6p was announced and I missed the freedom of android and decided to give it a try. This was the generation where Android started cracking down on rooting and the battery life was awful. I eventually went full in on iOS after that and here we are. I miss what Android was, I do sometimes miss the tinkering but I also don’t hate how things normally just work.
Now in regards to cost, the name brands for Android phones are around the same price. They usually promise 2-3 years of updates while currently Apple had a history of supporting phones for 4-5 years.
I understand you can get lower range phones for cheaper but I guess I’m not into the phone scene like I used to because I guess I assume the lower range phones aren’t getting the updates that the flagships are and I don’t want to have to either compromise security or shell out more money to get another phone. So for me, I’m typically buying around a $1000 phone but after 3 years I can trade in my phone for a decent amount of money off the new one, or sell it for even more and pay a mid range Android prices for a new iPhone. Or if I’m not feeling the upgrades are worth it I’ll just stick with my phone for the 5 years+ (only went to iPhone 15 to get USB-C and remove lightning from my place).
Battery life hasn’t been an issue on Android for like 5 years. Phone I’m using at the moment is a low-end Samsung, I have hundreds of apps, run a VPN and Tailscale, lots of automation, two sync apps, and a bunch of other stuff.
With normal use it lasts most of a day. When I say normal, I mean my normal, which is to hammer on the poor thing, the screen is rarely off.
For the average user this thing would last 2 days (I tested it when I got it, just put a few typical apps on).
Though you know your way around phones, and have developed your reasons for choosing the things you do, like long battery life.
You’re not the user who chooses iPhone because they don’t know anything and hear iPhone is better, Android is green low-rent bubbles.
As much as I dislike apple, I don’t really hold it against people if they choose to use iPhones. Iphones are overpriced, but they’re decent phones and I can’t really blame someone for not wanting to learn a different mobile OS or lose out on all the apps they’ve paid for. Also a lot of android OEMs make terrible design decisions with their software modifications/bloatware, and it can be really hard for someone non-tech savvy to know how to buy a good android phone. Iphones are comparably simple to shop for, you only have a few options and they’re all going to be decent (if not necessarily a good value).
Iphone elitism really bothers me though, it feels like it’s taking a lack of knowledge/experience and turning it into something to feel smug about.
Exactly.
I use an iPhone for work, because they pay for it, it does the essentials well, and since they manage the device, I get no benefit from Android’s openness.
My personal phone will always be Android, because I like to use a pocket computer the way I want to use it, not how the vendor thinks I should use it.
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This is a good video explaining things, for anyone who doesn’t know about the situation Apple created.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=BuaKzm7Kq9Q
Alternative 🔗:
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=BuaKzm7Kq9Q
https://piped.video/watch?v=BuaKzm7Kq9QWell it is because that bubble color on Apple means issues for people on Apple devices.
I have millenial family members, they hear it from their peers. Probably even worse in younger folks.
In the US, every millenial is a communist until a green bubble shows up in the group chat… then the poverty jokes commence
Millennials are pushing 40
Oof, that hurts.
Are their messages from their app going to show blue to iMessage users or something? Cuz I don’t see why you’d need to reverse engineer that otherwise. Even then… How hard is it to spoof a Mac address or other hardware identifier that says the message came from an iPhone?
The fact this is even an issue is just ridiculous to begin with. If you give that much of a shit: Use a different god damn messenger that treats everyone the same.
afaik, their while thing is that they do everything on-device, so your device is the only one with access to your messages
We literally shut down another app doing this last week because it was so sketchy
The article specifically address this and explained the difference.
No. This is much more impressive, useful, secure, and sustainable because it’s totally different internally.
I really want to sign up for Beeper, but the fact I have to give them my phone number to sign up for a waitlist seemed like a red flag. How is their security profile?
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By that logic, there’s nothing guaranteeing iMessage on iPhones is secure or private either because it’s closed source. If you don’t want to trust Beeper mini, you’ll be free to run their iMessage bridge on your own Matrix stack when they open source it at some point, which they’re promising to do (and you still won’t know that Apple isn’t scraping your messages on the iOS side). When I decide to trust a company, it’s because I look at what they’re transparently communicating to their end users. Every indication is that they are trying to get out of the middle of handling encrypted messages. Their first move to make this happen was allowing people to self host their own Beeper bridges (which you can still do with Beeper Cloud if you prefer and you will know that your messages are always encrypted within the Beeper infrastructure). They aren’t going to release the source for their client ever because that’s the only way they make any money.
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I assume you’re not using iMessage anyway then because Apple’s Messages stack isn’t open source. If you’re not using iMessage anyway, it shouldn’t matter to you what Beeper Mini is doing. This app isn’t for the ultra paranoid. Neither is Google’s RCS in Google Messages. This is where Signal and Matrix would be better choices. If you are using iMessage on an Apple device, you’re choosing to trust Apple despite their app being closed source and you’re not choosing to trust Beeper, which is fine and I don’t judge you at all for that stance. But at that point, your qualms aren’t simply about Beeper Mini being closed source, the implication is that you don’t trust Beeper as a company and/or its developers which, again, is a valid stance even if it’s one I don’t share.
But I am personally pretty sure I can trust Beeper and Apple enough with my relatively meaningless conversations.
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You should read the docs. It’s impressive.
I get where you’re coming from, but after readinhow badly security is implemented in iMessage frankly I trust the Beeper devs more than Apple.
Get this, iMessage delivers the AES encrypted message in a package with the AES key, that package is encrypted with your RSA key.
iMessage lacks forward secrecy. So if anyone ever got your RSA key, they could read all your messages, including past messages, because your RSA key never changes!
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They do have to run servers in order to keep the service alive. If you want to run this stuff yourself on your own server that’s possible using PyPush. The reason they have to run those servers for you is to keep the notification service alive.
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Yeah, sorry, I got confused. Beeper mini does need servers to keep the notification service alive. And thus not crazy to ask for 2$ a month. Beeper cloud could indeed do without servers I guess, but I don’t know anything about that. I was just keeping up with the development of pypush (the python poc) and reverse engineering progress.
I don’t understand your point of “you have to log in with a google account”. I understood that was a requirement to check subscription status (and as such limit fraudulent apk’s).
But that seems to be a different story than “opensourcing this would mean a competitor could do it for free”.
You can already do this for free with pypush. And if you want to use something else then python you could build something based on it with any language as pypush is completely open source.
Your Google account is required because it uses GCM for notifications on the phone. The Mini servers act as a middleman between GCM and ANP (Apples background notification protocol).
They talk about this in the docs, they didn’t think it was realistic to try to reproduce ANP on Android, besides Android already has a service.
