Truth is the second option one is just a normal ass guy. Everyone has emotions and needs. The fact is it’s still taboo to be a “man” and have emotions.
Like honestly tell me any other option on there is preferable to someone with emotions… She acting like women don’t require the same thing? Gtfoh. It’s not even a bad thing. It’s just a human thing.
What she’s referring to isn’t the same as having emotions. She means the people who expect everyone around them, especially their romantic partner, to manage their emotions for them. Plenty of women do it, too.
I don’t know anyone like that. I do know we are plenty of people who are drama queens.
But that’s not really the same thing as having emotions people with functional emotions are actually fine, it’s the ones that don’t have emotions but do have an awful lot of opinions that are the problem.
No, that’s the narcissist. She’s referring to having to help someone with their emotional needs. Sounds moreso like she needs to work on her own if it’s laborious to support her partner emotionally.
Expecting your partner to be your personal therapist is not cool but it’s also not necessarily narcissism.
Ah, so they key is to have your own therapist, and a partner that doesn’t give two shits about your emotional well being. gotcha.
cuz being an emotionally supportive partner means becoming their personal therapist. cool cool, you sound fun
Who said anything about that? You can share your emotions with your partner in a way where you don’t expect them to be your personal therapist. Generally, it’s healthy to have a support network, preferably not just one person and especially not just one person who isn’t even a professional.
When you share your feelings with a therapist, that exchange is in one direction, you should never have to emotionally support your therapist. That is however not how it should be with a partner, in a romantic relationship both people should be able to share their emotions and receive support, and that isn’t possible if one person is treating the other as if they were a therapist and not giving them the space to share their emotions in turn.
Most things in life are about balance, just because you don’t agree with something all the way one side (e.g. there is no way to create an unhealthy relationship dynamic by sharing your emotions, regardless of how you do it) doesn’t mean that you agree with something all the way to the other side (i.e. you shouldn’t give two shits about your partner’s emotional well-being).
in a romantic relationship both people should be able to share their emotions and receive support
Expecting your partner to be your personal therapist is not cool
I was replying to someone up there who was shitting on men with emotions. Because they equated having them with being a bad partner. My point is that emotions are normal and wanting an emotionally supportive partner isn’t the same as treating them like a therapist.
Who was shitting on men with emotions? I haven’t seen that at all.
wanting an emotionally supportive partner isn’t the same as treating them like a therapist
We agree on that, you can do one without doing the other.
one of the main points and benefits of a relationship is being able to share problems with someone else and have someone that could cheer you up or to share excitement with
‘emotional labor’ is for actual jobs, especially customer service type jobs
Yea, but if you’re trauma dumping on your partner every time you see them that’s not healthy or fair to them.
Oh so that’s why relationships feel like jobs.
Only if you’re doing them wrong
Relationships only really feel like jobs in this way when you feel your effort is not being reciprocated. Doing emotional labour for your partner is not exhausting if you feel like you are equally pulling each other up.
She’s referring to overly emotional men, who need extra attention; guys who can’t handle failure or rejection, who have a bad day at work and then can’t help around the house at all at night and who expect their partner to take care of them, regardless of how their partner’s day went. I know the type of dude she’s talking about and I wouldn’t want my daughter to bring one home. Dude needs a mother not a partner.
Nope this is a list of all the men available, like she said. She’s painting all emotional men with the same brush. There are good men and bad men in each of those categories she listed, but she thinks we’re all bad.
So I cry and need a hug sometimes? Emotional labor. I can describe the full range of emotions I feel to a partner and deal with them in a healthy way? Gross.
You have a victim mentality. You are looking for this stuff and you’re finding it. The post does not say that.
“As we seek so shall we find.”
I know who I am. I’m just reading what she said. That’s the dating pool.
Let me ask you this:
How could a decent man possibly respond to a post like that without being lumped into it, like you just did to me?
They could not respond, just be present at home with their family.
Yes, I suppose we could just become more silent and withdrawn, couldn’t we?
Let me try a different tack. I know I have issues. I’ve been working on myself for years. As men, we mostly experience negative reinforcement with emotional growth.
But if we are trying to get healthy, how are we supposed to respond to that kind of invalidating talk, inside our own heads? What if the woman saying that kind of stuff isn’t just venting her frustration onto the internet, what if she’s saying it to us, in a relationship? Does that kind of talk inspire us to improve or push us into darker places? Is complaining about us like this in any way helping to improve the way men and women interact?
Once again you’re making it the woman’s job to help you improve yourself. You’re going to see and hear things that put you in a dark place. That’s life. Bringing yourself back to a middle ground of contendedness requires constant self work.
I’m sorry you have problems. Not everyone breaks the wheel.
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So she wants a guy with a low sex drive, who she doesnt have to have any emotional attachment to, but who emotionally invested in her, that doesnt have any self confidence, and doesnt know any feminist theory so he cant tell he’s in a toxic relationship and doesnt treat her like “shit” (an equal)
is it too much to ask for?
So just a vibrator and a dozen Facebook huns.
Sounds like she’ll shout: “worship me as I am your goddess” and “I demand tribute” on a regular basis.
Is that not a normal thing to do?
That depends, are you a goa’uld?
Depends on the context.
In the bedroom: yes
In a Porsche showroom: no
Some guys are into that
Just do a hit and run, bro 😂
Tell me you’ve never actually dated a grown-up woman before.
When did she say she wanted a man with low sex drive? Being a porn addict doesn’t mean you have a high sex drive. It means you’re addicted to pornography.
When did she say any of what you wrote? Have you heard of being an even-tempered man who has sex with women but doesn’t degrade them or neg them in order to do it, who doesn’t need to trauma-dump on their gf because they’ve already worked through their shit? Your inference into what she posted tells us more about you than her.
Yes please take my dumb lemmy comment about a dumb 4chan post about a dumb tweet extremely seriously and try to start an argument with me by attacking my character. That’s a very good use of your time.
Hmm I think you might be some of the red flags she’s talking about especially the manipulative one.
She literally said she doesn’t want a guy who is sensitive and doesn’t want a guy who is emotionally distant. Make it make sense.
I’m not saying I agree with the meme, but that part makes sense to me. Am I really the only one who has met both types of dysfunctional people? Some people are extremely emotionally demanding, where they need constant reassurance and support, and others are completely detached, so that there’s hardly emotional connection at all.
Being healthy is almost always about achieving the mean between extremes.
Well then that’s because you had a READING FAIL or you’re playing syntax argument and pretending that you’re confused.
Of course It wouldn’t make sense if you stopped reading after the first two words out of two entire sentences. Each point had descriptions but you’re ignoring them just to launch into a pitchfork argument. This is ‘Syntax’ argument. That’s some bad actor energy right there at worst. red herring argument at best.
So you’re Confused? Go back and reread for more than two words per line. Sound it out loud if you’re still ‘confused’. Talk to an English teacher if need be.
But personally I don’t believe you are confused. Not today, lil incel. Ya blocked.
I have no idea who this chick is, but it aint exactly a string of hits for us guys out here either. People suck in general.
Well, if we’re generalizing THAT much, the dating pool for guys is just as bad.
We’ve got:
-women who will go out with you just for a free dinner date, then never talk to you again
-women who are looking for sugar daddies
-women obsessed with their socials (IG, TikTok, etc)
-women so unnatural you question they can still be considered human (lip fillers, butt lifts, boob jobs, have you ever heard of the term “Bimbofication”?)
-all of the above
In reality, there are so many more people in this world that don’t fit any of these categories on the men or women side. It’s just that a lot of the “dating pool” she’s talking about is centered around dating apps. The real world is so much more diverse.
How about “astrology and crystals are my personality”
I was with a girl in her room and when she started teaching me about astrology, I just bursted out laughing with how dumb it was. Basically, what you just said before but 10x worse with this girl, there were rocks fucking everywhere. I’m suprised Hank from Breaking Bad didn’t show up.
Jesus Christ Marie, they’re minerals!
Hank was busy with a PTSD episode that day…
E: apparently I can’t spell a 4-letter word.
Your forgetting the “I have sex” girl.
Having sex is basically her whole personality.
Those women are the worst. Where do they hang out so I can avoid them?
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So she’s complaining about sensitive guys, but also doesn’t want them to be emotionally distant.
Basically wants the guy to do the “emotional labour” but not do any herself.
How to phrase this…
Women’s behavior towards men’s emotions is like…it’s their very very favorite TV show, but they hate almost all of the episodes. They want you to be emotional, they want you to be in touch with your feelings…until you actually do, and she throws the remote through the screen because it’s not one of the very few episodes of this show that she likes.
There are words I just don’t say out loud in any context anymore because of this. “Love” is one of them. One of my exes would throw a three act opera of a shit fit if I said something like “I love jalapenos on pizza” because “You’ll say you love PEPPERS but not ME!” Well yeah, Tiffany; 1 because the word has different meanings when applied to food vs applied to a person, and 2 we’ve been dating for five weeks at this point; I’m still in the stage of trying to determine if you’re sane enough to get serious with, and early exit polls aren’t looking very promising." So I say things like “I really enjoy jalapenos on pizza” and I sound like a cyborg but I’m not sitting through another fucking meltdown like that.
Its just a litany of performative complaints to get attention. Standard Social Media interaction bait. More people respond, your metrics go up, more businesses are willing to give you money to do native advertising on their behalf.
Exactly. Insert the word “woke” into any post and get that ragebait interaction.
Trolling has become incredibly easy on the modern internet. It was always pretty easy, but I feel like it used to have to have more juice, you know?
People used to be less jaded and fewer interactions used to be with LLMs.
Emotional Labor is for the individual to do. If you feel like you need help, that’s what a therapist is for. Do you expect a gf to be your therapist? Sharing and expressing feelings is a normal part of a relationship, but expecting your SO to also be your own personal therapist is completely unhealthy. Everyone has their own emotional Labor to do, why should anyone else (who’s not a therapist) be expected to do yours?
uhhh, yeah, my wife and i try to be the best therapist we can be for each other. not wanting to do that for the person you love seems weird to me.
I’m talking about an unhealthy codependency that can happen when someone with a developed fight-response pairs with someone with a developed fawn-response. It sounds like you two have a healthy relationship where you can discuss each other’s problems with each other freely. Which is good.
Personally, no I wouldn’t expect my partner to unravel my own personal cPTSD for me. I would work on it myself and with a therapist need be. Discussing my progress and thoughts on my own cPTSD and hearing my partner’s is a healthy thing to do.
Everyone has their own emotional Labor to do, why should anyone else (who’s not a therapist) be expected to do yours?
Because part of a healthy relationship involves sharing with your partner and helping them through their struggles, emotional or otherwise?
Sharing and expressing feelings is a normal part of a relationship, but expecting your SO to also be your own personal therapist is completely unhealthy
I literally said that. The difference is sharing your own progress in a healthy way compared to expecting your SO to do the progress for you
Relationships are emotional labor on both sides
Maybe she should find someone outside those social media pools then.
Social Media Influencer: “All men are trash. Everyone I meet just wants to stare at me, fuck me, or use me as a trophy.”
Same Social Media Influencer: “Five Amazing Tricks to instantly get a stud’s attention. When his friends see you with him, they will be so jealous!”
The amount of “don’t sexualize me” women who then turn around and post explicit and obvious thirst traps is crazy.
The problem is that they’re talking to two completely different and separate groups of men: the bottom-90%, and the top-10%, respectively. They just don’t provide any such context, which turns this behaviour from mere hypocrisy into blatantly cruel hypocrisy.
they’re talking to two completely different and separate groups of men
I mostly see them talking to women, with the message being to hyper-individualize and consider everyone else as nothing more than an object of exploitation (because that’s how everyone sees you).
“Get the Top 10% Dude” messaging isn’t even really about the subset of men in question. Its just about extracting stuff from the highest value targets. It is the deep commodification of relationships.
I feel your explanation is equally as valid and likely (if not more so) as mine, you’re just seeing things from a different perspective.
isn’t even really about the subset of men in question. Its just about extracting stuff from the highest value targets.
Except the highest value targets tend to be the top-10% of men, which is why women tend to be deeply offended if anyone from the lower-90% actually makes an approach - dealing with that interruption is a massive waste of her time and efforts, which can be better spent targeting those high-value men and extracting value from them.
Hence that “don’t sexualize me” messaging - it’s meant to dissuade the low-value truly-nice guys (the non-sociopaths) who actually value and obey the wishes of women. It ensures that they self-select themselves out of contention for her attentions without her having to expend any energy on them, specifically.
women tend to be deeply offended if anyone from the lower-90% actually makes an approach
That has not been my experience. The single friends I know aren’t looking for a Top 10% Man nearly so much as they are looking for a guy who will just act normal. Don’t be a giant horndog. Don’t get violent when you’re upset. Don’t flake on dates. Don’t ask me to pay for everything.
Unfortunately, they’re all on the dating websites, and those sites are flooded with fuckbois, creeps, and assholes. Folks who, very likely, consider themselves in the Top 10%, but can’t maintain a relationship because they are so toxic.
it’s meant to dissuade the low-value truly-nice guys (the non-sociopaths) who actually value and obey the wishes of women
It isn’t meant to dissuade them because they’re invisible to people who spend all their time looking for love on these social media sites. The struggle to find nice, chill, normal guys is real. What’s more - and what really staggered me when we were hanging out - was how social media has degraded her ability to just… flirt with people in public. We were at a bar and there was a guy she saw who she thought was cute. And my wife goes over to tell him, “My friend thinks your cute can she buy you a drink?” and he says yes and comes over to chat, and she fucking flubs it! Just wiffs so hard! Complete emotion seize up. This woman is in her 30s and has hooked up online a thousand times, but as soon as she’s not using her phone she just face-plants.
Its the fucking apps, man. They are obliterating the ability for people to form normal human relationships. These social media gurus are feeding on that negative energy, and people are falling for it because they’ve forgotten how to communicate with one another normally.
You really don’t need to be in this mythical elite to get a girl. There are so many women who would love to have a bog-standard normal human dude. They aren’t trying to dissuade these people. They have just lost the social skills necessary to make a healthy human connection. All they know how to do anymore is hit the “Fuck Me” button and hope someone else hits it back.
Guys who ask you about your Linux distro on the first date (none of which are hard for enough)
> guys who post on lemmy
also raving communists
and Star Trek utopists
To be fair, that group also contains a fair amount of women.
Meanwhile the dating pool for men contains the following:
Crickets
No no, there’s tons and tons of scam accounts that all use the same pictures of a hot Asian supermodel, who all try to get you to buy them 10k of Bitcoin in exchange for the promise of a handy or whatever
I’ve seen her. Her breasts are like softballs duct taped to a broom.
Still would.
Requirements:
Woman (optional)
“No one wants to date me, it must be their fault.”
That comes with other connotations so we’ll say it’s just a joke for right now.
Awknowledging men don’t have many options isn’t the same thing as blaming women for the situation.
Well, that post is a straight flush of red flags.
Thinking that someone else having emotions is work is definitely a major one.
Also I’m not sure what I’m supposed to do, if I’m emotional I’m bad, if I’m cold and distant I’m bad, what she want?
She wants you to be emotionally available for her, but not to be emotionally available for you. Avoid these people, men or women, for anything you’re not absolutely forced to.
I read this to refer to the way overly emotional guys that cannot handle failure or rejection.
I think she’s talking about people who need to be constantly emotionally validated, which can absolutely be emotionally draining, especially if you’re working through shit yourself.
Like, if your partner has BDD and you have to have a
conversationargument with them multiple times a day defending them from their own self loathing, that’s exhausting after a few years.
Online is a perfect haven for predators so I cant fault her for acknowledging there are some if not many awful people out there(which are in all walks of life and not just preying on young women). If there weren’t there would be no need for moderators. So okay…Good for her for setting some standards but like she could just acknowledge it with her friends over coffee or have a p2p chat about it and maybe put together a game plan and do more deep dive on how to get more aware of when she’s getting used and tuck that away into her back pocket and rely on it when she needs and not set out to ‘teach all men a lesson about young women to be nicer only to them’.
Cuz if you start announcing things like she did and just going ‘no users!’ On a public profile this is just lazy filtering and airing personal baggage. At the very least you still have to give people a chance not to tick those boxes or get some counselling if you start predicting the worst of an entire group and start getting exclusionary and generalizing who’s victimized and who’s predatory based on age and gender like this.
People calling the effort you put in to support your partners, friends and family “emotional labor” are either blatantly misinformed or people who want a pass on not giving a shit about their “close ones”.
Emotional labor, as a term, was created to explain the difficulties and effort someone has to engage in to regulate their emotions when they’re constantly dealing with the suffering of other people during work. It’s valid, just as long as you use it in its appropriate context. This dumbass appropriation of the term by a certain branch of liberals is like if someone used the physical concept of entropy to justify why they’re never getting out of depression.
If someone only wants emotionless relationships with people they only interact with for their own benefit, and never giving a care in turn, that’s legitimate, as long as they don’t lie about their intentions. But that might also explain why this Hannah at the OP cannot find a good partner.
If your partner has a mental illness/disorder, then being in a relationship with them can absolutely involve emotional labor.
We all have mental disorders. Fuckin everybody does. Especially those considered normal. If you have no problems fitting into this corpo hellscape, you’re nuts.
The irony about depression and entropy is that is actually a pretty good analogy. Depresson, just like entropy, will only cool down more and more over time. You quite directly have to put in effort to solve depresson just like ‘something’ has to be countering entropy for difference to remain. Entropy untreated leaves you with nothing to work with much like depresson.
It works well as a metaphor, which is why people might be fooled to think there might be a direct parallelism without understanding the insurmountable differences between both (depression may be very hard to get out of if you’re in a downwards spiral, but definitely possible, while entropy is literally an inevitability of the Universe, as far as our understanding of physics goes) which is why I compared it to the popular appropriation of emotional labor, which notices the poetic similarity but is unable to understand the actual differences between both.
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Mind to explain how?
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I certainly dislike people who have neat little boxes to put other people in. I know it’s a human thing, still think it’s detrimental.
It’s not a human thing. Humans are natural empathizers. It’s a capitalism “you’re your job and your khakis” thing.
Theres some tendency towards tribalism that is probably a human thing though right? Wasn’t that the main social unit for humans through prehistory?
Social units existing in the first place requires some level of empathy. Tribalism is just selective empathy, not the absence of it.
Yes. Humans definitely aren’t altruistic or empathetic, as a whole.
That’s because we’re just animals. I would say it this way: humans are not instinctually altruistic but are capable of being rational.
Which isn’t any better and may actually be worse: we can be rational, but we can also rationalize our instincts.
Yeah communism famously doesn’t allow for punishing people for intrinsic traits
Empathy is a learned behaviour.
Lol, humans are inherently tribalistic.
Capitalism is actually normal human behavior. There’s a reason it has to be regulated.
Tribalism is based on empathy towards other tribe members. Capitalism, ironically, goes against this: tribal bonds take a back seat to economic interest.
Humans are, in fact naturally empathetic. It’s why we pack-bond with anything with a name.
They’re naturally empathetic to their tribe, but not to others. Tribalism isn’t a good thing.
Tribalism is the root of the entire GOP platform of hate. Racism, anti-LGBT, etc. are all because humans are tribalistic.
Tribalism is bad, but the tribe existing at all is empathy in action. Once the tribe is there, it’s just a matter of expanding it.
It’s not a matter of expanding it. Humans developed to have tribes of 2-300 people, and as a species we haven’t done well past that. Look how society started turning to shit once we could communicate globally with millions of people.
We didn’t learn to love and accept everyone, we just formed echo chambers (tribes) and turned the dial up on the hate.
What you’re looking for is something like globalism, which goes against human nature.
Dunbar’s number is 150, I believe. But that’s the limit for ““real”” people, with names and addresses and birthdays. The magic is, however, they don’t need to all be real: a nation is a tribe, and nations can hold millions. You just need a few real people that you take as a stand in for all the others, and then keep doing it untill it encompasses the whole of humanity.
I say “just”, it’s not like it’s that easy, but it’s doable.
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Capitalism really couldn’t happen to this degree until industrialism became a thing.
I mean, all you have to do is look at all of recorded human history to see that we’re not an altruistic or compassionate species. A person might be altruistic or compassionate, but people aren’t. If people were, communism would actually work.
Regardless, tribalism isn’t a good thing because you end up with ‘that persons skin color is different from mine and that’s bad.’
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Communism works for small communities, like 2-300 people (which incidentally is the size of the tribes we developed to be part of).
And while altruistim and compassion have existed, they’re by no means traits in the majority of humans. Humans are selfish, greedy animals. Some of us might realize this and work to be better, but that means we’re fighting our natural tendencies.
Easy, just go bi and date other women. You still have the option for men.
Edit also it’s unfair to say what she’s saying anyways. I almost feel like your dating pool options or choices are more a reflection of you than other people. Or idk, maybe some people get unlucky.
Yeah she’s gonna have a rough time
The dating pool for young men is literally
-OF models
-“Sensitive” girls you have to perform constant emotional labor for
-Narcissistic (if not sociopathic) insta models
-Emotionally abusive manipulators
-Spambots
Add gold diggers to the list
Gold diggers are not in the pool for non-rich
Dating pool for young men is great tho. Women pick you literally if you’re tall enough for their favourite shoes
Well, it’s great if you’re tall enough I guess.
Have you tried not being short?
No, but I’ve tried not being tall. Big success there.
I was expecting a small success on that regard
I’ve been on my tippy toes, yes.
Still short as shit
Surely you just need to pick someone who’s shorter than you. Everyone’s tall it’s just a matter of perspective.
Sure, but the further you move toward the tails of the distribution the stronger the competition. All men will date short women, but short men can only date shorter women and they’re still at a disadvantage. Tall women have a similar problem - they only want men who are taller than them, which just happen to be the most attractive men for every other woman they’re competing with, too.
I dated a woman 8" taller than me. It’s not impossible just find ones that aren’t shallow.
Sure, and sometimes older women marry younger men. That doesn’t make it common or realistic.
Ok, keep lumping everyone into a box and being a bitter asshole then. IDK what else to tell you.
Yeah it kinda sucks.
As a 6 foot tall socially awkward aneurotypical conventionally unattractive guy, I can assure you being tall is not a free ticket to getting laid
*if you’re attractive
Me, an emotionally distant narcissistic porn addict: get on my level nerds
