Microsoft is starting to enable ads inside the Start menu on Windows 11 for all users. After testing these briefly with Windows Insiders earlier this month, Microsoft has started to distribute update KB5036980 to Windows 11 users this week, which includes “recommendations” for apps from the Microsoft Store in the Start menu.
Luckily you can disable these ads, or “recommendations” as Microsoft calls them. If you’ve installed the latest KB5036980 update then head into Settings > Personalization > Start and turn off the toggle for “Show recommendations for tips, app promotions, and more.” While KB5036980 is optional right now, Microsoft will push this to all Windows 11 machines in the coming weeks.
Microsoft’s move to enable ads in the Windows 11 Start menu follows similar promotional spots in the Windows 10 lock screen and Start menu. Microsoft also started testing ads inside the File Explorer of Windows 11 last year before disabling the experiment and saying the test was “not intended to be published externally.” Hopefully that experiment remains very much an experiment.
If I see your company or app advertised on windows 11, you can be sure I will be actively avoiding said company/ App. Even if I need the services advertised, I will be looking for an alternative just because.
I have the same policy for pop up ads.
I’m not sure these ads are even paid for by the developers of the apps that show up. It looks like this is an ad for the Microsoft Store in general, as Microsoft gets a percentage of any sales.
Yeah if your app has in app purchases or requires payment it probably can show up here. Probably in the contract you sign to put your app in the Microsoft store
No candy crush for this guy!
Or 1Password, apparently
Don’t disagree with the sentiment but I didn’t think companies had this much leeway in how their ads were displayed.
They can pick which type of ads they buy which this certainly will be its own premium category
The only place this will be active is on the computers of home users who don’t know how or don’t care to deactivate it. The computers of the common clay of IT usage. You know. Morons.
And to tie that meme in with an older one: A fool and his money are soon parted.
How did the default attitude toward the user get so hostile? The amount of toggles you need to set just to have a smooth experience with minimal tracking is insane. The people in here defending it by the fact it can be disabled are missing the point: we shouldn’t have to deal with it in the first place.
You shouldn’t. I haven’t. Microsoft is a plague and a choice.
You’re not wrong, but there’s a larger issue here: the fact that there’s an alternative does not make what Microsoft is doing okay. This shit ought to be prohibited by consumer protection law.
Yeah it’s not just Microsoft. Fucking ads in my doorbell app, Google TV, etc.
Putting ads in a product you paid for should be illegal.
TBH I am fully expecting a world where, in the next 10-15 years, some company will make a car that plays unskippable audio ads every X number of miles/km which can be disabled for $9.99/month.
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I hate it as much as the next guy, but I certainly don’t see why it should be illegal (and disclaimer — Debian on all my personal machines, macOS for work).
Should it be illegal for books to have a list of similar material from the author/publisher? Should food staples not be able to list recipes on the back?
I completely agree that pulling the rug out from under the customer should be illegal (i.e., effectively changing the terms of service for an already-purchased product), but having a shitty product shouldn’t be illegal IMHO.
It really goes like this:
I buy product. Product has no ads, and works really well.
After updates, my device starts showing ads and works worse than it had before.
I bought the device. It is my device. I should be able to do what I want with my device, that I spent my money on, the way I like it. If that means I don’t want your shitty ads, then I should be able to avoid or opt out of those by default.
From your thought:
You buy cookbook. Cookbook has what you need already, which is why you purchased it.
The one you purchased it from comes and “updates” your book by scribbling in ads for it’s other recipe books, and they did it really sloppily to boot.
Now, when you are looking for a specific recipe that you knew was in the book before, instead it is an ad for their other recipe book in place of where the recipe you were looking for was.
Sure, you can still find your recipe somewhere in the book, but as you flip through the books pages you see more and more and more ads for their other recipe books, and oh, now they are also showing you ads from some of their sponsors.
You paid for the book. It is rightfully yours to do with it as you please.
The recipe book company already got your money, yet they are insistent you buy more from them, and have even gone as far as defacing your book.
You should be upset.
Hardcopy images in a book are a bit different from the typical proprietary software doing who knows what on your personal computer. Not saying ads should be illegal but I would argue for software freedom where you can remove ads from ever running on your computer - like you can rip pages out of your book.
The choice is hard to make when Microsoft’s garbage has been shoved down your throat for decades, it’s the default pretty much everywhere and the only viable alternative, for 99% of the population, is Apple.
Governments have been way too lenient and passive towards Microsoft for far too long
You don’t choose your childhood education. Microsoft and Apple offer schools deals to create adults dependent on it - after all they’ll be using it in work too.
This is a direct result of our Wall Street economy. Wall Street demands that each corporation’s stock price shall increase every quarter. No matter what. If that means the customer is unhappy or that a corporation must consume itself from within. Doesn’t matter.
It got here because it’s super profitable, and that’s all the C-suite cares about, and they’re the ones calling the shots at the end of the day.
I also think that engineering ethics has, in general, been strongly de-emphasized, and true holistic ownership of technical products is now usually held by business and finance types instead of engineers, with all the negative consequences that that entails.
You know, I get if they want to do this to Home editions, but why in the world would they do this to all editions? At the very least, this should never apply to domain-joined computers.
Money
Seems short sighted to annoy the people who pay you the most money already.
What are they going to switch to?
Most orgs will just put up with it because of inertia: existing software that has to work, employee’s having to learn new skills, “sysadmins” who only know Microsoft, etc.
… “sysadmins” who only know Microsoft, …
HEY
Nothing personal, lol, but I stand by my quotes.
I feel like sysadmins need to be comfortable in multiple environments. I also work with some really crappy ones who only know how to reboot a faulty system or crawl to Microsoft for support. No reviewing logs, no digging in at all, just “welp, a reboot didn’t fix it. Gonna submit a support ticket and make no further effort”.
There’s a lot to be said for a good generalist, but at some point, specialization takes you farther. I ended up with Windows server and Active Directory, as well as Exchange (lots of other stuff, too, but those are the main things). Apart from mass workstation management, or when a help desk person asks for a hand, I haven’t dealt with non-servers in a loooong time.
No reviewing logs, no digging in at all, just “welp, a reboot didn’t fix it. Gonna submit a support ticket and make no further effort”.
My last few experiences with Microsoft support (spread over many years) have been “If I can’t figure it out, Microsoft probably can’t, either.” For a smaller company, with a limited IT staff, having someone who is able to efficiently interface with vendor support without necessarily having all the answers themselves can be a useful thing. But I totally get what you’re saying.
Profits now are all that matter. The future is a problem for after dividends and bonuses get paid out.
But they could be paying the most money even more.
how soon do you think ms gets hit with a lawsuit because a malicious ad infected BlackRock or Deloitte or some shit
I’m getting extremely close to making a tiny partition for windows (so I can play gamepass) and then using a Linux distro for my day to day. Are there still issues with Nvidia drivers on Linux? Its been a long time since I’ve run Linux.
PopOS handles nvidia drivers perfectly.
I recently installed Nobara with Nvidia on my three year old alienware desktop because of Windows 11 turning to advertising shit. Nobara is finicky enough that I might jump over to PopOS. Lots of shearing and frame skips in video, let alone in gaming. I don’t have this issue on my other laptop with PopOS on it.
Sounds like you’re not using the proprietary binary blob.
I’ve used both Linux Mint and Manjaro, and my Nvidia card has done fine in both. I switched to Mint from Windows because it was easier and faster to set up under Mint (Windows was missing a bunch of drivers and the OEM’s site didn’t have updated ones). The only configuration I had to do was select the proprietary driver (and Mint has a nice little GUI for that). If you’re on the fence, I highly recommend trying Mint.
Seconded. Mint is the best distro for anyone who wants to get started with Linux with the least amount of hassle. Installation is a breeze and it just works.
Thirded. I set Mint as the default boot, then have a copy of windows available as an alternative OS option when required.
I installed Mint last night as a dual-boot and had a few issues, the boot loader would not load into Windows Boot Manager and when I manually selected Windows Boot Manager in UEFI Windows booted but hard locked until it reindexed the drive I partitioned for Linux.
The Mint OS works fine, to be clear. My issue with the dual boot is mostly getting Windows to play nice.
Dual boot is definitely more tricky to get going. I just set up a Windows partition again to play a game that uses Easy Anti Cheat, and it took some time to have everything working happily.
I have not tried it, but I’ve heard good things about bazzite as a good steam deck clone that has a strong community committed to Nvidia support.
Worth looking into at least!
steam deck clone
No way Jose. If anything their approach is inspired by Fedora Atomic, which is the cornerstone of Bazzite.
Other than that, yes, a very very solid approach for daily usage for casual gamers.
Oh it’s my time to shine! I just installed bazzite onto my ROG Ally yesterday.
It is pretty fantastic so far. Not perfect but very good.
Also, it doubles as a pretty OK developer machine because it comes with buildutils, unlike the steam deck. I was able to get my Nix dotfiles set up on it and do a little Rust work to try it out.
Bazzite is a neat concept, and I run it too. Still haven’t gotten VR to work properly, though (Quest 2)
I made it through two whole top level comments before getting to a switch to Linux comment.
It was my turn this week!
So you’re saying we should do better?
I’ve had the rare issue with my 4070ti that probably wouldn’t have been a problem with AMD, but most things run great. Using endeavorOS
Not really. With the super easy, friendly distros it basically just goes.
I switched to Linux Mint Cinnamon a while ago expecting to just fool around a bit but mostly boot back into windows to do stuff. I’ve now found that the ONLY thing I need to go back to windows for is when I’m forced by dumb policies to use an MSOffice product, which fortunately doesn’t happen to often (and no, LibreOffice is absolutely not a sub for MS Office. The spreadsheet app is worse than google docs, and I’d rather work in typst than have to deal with the libreoffice writer – especially as soon as I need to display an equation/figure/table of contents. Of course, I’d rather work in typst than deal with MSWord too…)
That said, I don’t really play games anymore. Games may still require frequent windows visits. But… I’ve been looking forward to a complete edition of horizon forbidden west and all accounts say it’s linux compatibility is near perfect, so maybe things aren’t so bad these days on the gaming front.
I did the same for the few game I can’t run. Nobara installed working drivers in 1 click. My GPU runs a bit more than it should on the desktop but the last driver update made a big difference.
Im planning on switching the Window install back to 10 since 11 is too shit.
Well I changed my nvidia settings from on demand to a lower value and rebooted Mint a few weeks ago. Then there was no display at all and several hours/days of searching led me to reinstall Linux again and I did not have good backups. There was probably an answer there, but my frustration with Linux is real!!! I still refuse to use anything else and flop between manjaro and mint. I think having proper system backups and a live USB ready to go is helpful…I’m much more defensive running Linux because I keep getting shitty surprises, but I still feel better about it over using windows.
If you like arch based, may I suggest you try Garuda?
It’s a gaming distro, which I don’t know if you care about, but it’s very stable, should work with NVidia and has many quality of life features.
I switched to Pop OS a year ago and the Nvidia drivers are fine. There are definitely some things that are a pain in the ass. My fingerprint scanner won’t work even though it is in the list of ones that work in fprintd and I don’t feel like going through the process of submitting a ticket and troubleshoot it. Getting some games to run properly in WINE can also be a pain. Overall though, I’m fine with it.
But a tiny partition will not do for Windows.
Tried the same thing, but ended up running into issues with Linux constantly and needed to use Windows more than I wanted, so just ended up back on Windows 10. Once all the shit is disabled it’s perfectly fine. Linux is getting there, but still only really good for general web browsing/office suites (unless you wanna play around in the command line for ages).
It’s frustrating that the answer to any of the questions/issues I have are generally reams of commands and walls of text that I only partially understand. If I find answers at all now that all discourse is being sectioned in to walled gardens like Discord. 😬
Windows sucks. I wish I could put Linux on my work computer.
I brought an acer leptop a couple of years back and acer made it nearly impossible to install any other os then windows onto it
Because of Intel RST? I just had to deal with that but was able to get a dual boot of mint on my acer.
edit For those who come across this who has the same issue as I did. Video: https://youtu.be/sGJL62ZYRTU?t=77 Text: Boot to your BIOS. Get to the MAIN tab and hit CTRL+S to show hidden bios option. Disable Intel RST. Exit and Save. Re attempt to install Mint.
Let me preface that with I’m a bloody linux and every releated noob and it’s been like 5 years so my memory is a little fuzzy: I never figured out why Ubuntu didn’t run but it just didn’t, after i got mint working i realized that there are no drivers and a leptop with out touchpad/wifi isn’t why I needed it in the first place…
It was an aspite 3 a315-41g. I quickly googled to refresh my memory and I read something about that, I can’t recall if I tried it out though. I needed to changed a few settings so maybe I tried.
Ah, I have the aspire a315-56. Mint was pretty painless for me after the RST issue. I didn’t have to worry about wifi/bluetooth/touchpad drivers at all. Right out of the box its been smooth (for linux) for me.
Interesting what distro did you use?
How long until Mom gets malware from them?
This is what i fear. How much curation and monitoring will be done on the ads, or this will be another vector for malicious application
How long until we get to the default “I don’t get paid to ask questions” mentality of ad services.
Note:
- disable ads on moms notebook
Oh look another reason why I’ll be switching to Linux next time I have to upgrade my pc. Fml I’m going to have to learn what a package manager is ew
Fml I’m going to have to learn what a package manager is ew
Two minutes later
“Wait, you mean I get fast, convenient package delivery without being advertised to?”
The package manager was actually one of the simpler things about switching to Linux in my experience
Here i was thinking we were talking about men’s underwear
;) package managed
I feel angry when I have to hunt down the installer for an application under Windows, and then know I have to go find it again later to update it. I have no clue how I got by without a package manager on Windows. Though if they had one, you have to know it would be complete intrusive dogshit about 5 minutes into its existence.
As a former Windows user, Chocolatey is a great way to get used to a package manager through Windows. I used it to install stuff like hwinfo or wiztree.
Chocolatey’s saving grace is that it’s third party. IDK how well it’s maintained and expanded, it’s been some time since I used it and there wasn’t much on it when I did.
They have a database of packages on their site. This page also popped up with info on how packages are moderated and stuff too.
You can use the official WinGet package manager for Windows pretty easily.
Shhhhh Windows bad! /s
And the wind screams Linux
If only Linux wasn’t so frustrating to use for the average enduser. I’d never recommend it as a daily driver for 95% of people.
I’d argue that for the vast majority of users, a stable, modern Linux distro will meet their needs perfectly. Web browsing, watching YouTube, checking e-mail, looking at pictures of cats on the internet…
It’s special/professional use-cases that are still lackluster. Try doing professional level photo editing on Linux… It’s a nightmare. Integrating with corporate cloud solutions? Nah. Are these things doable? Absolutely. By the majority of users in that specific use-case? No.
But day-to-day, general use PC stuff? Yeah, absolutely. Even gaming is more accessible than ever. There’s exactly one game in my Steam library that doesn’t just work… To be clear, it doesn’t work at all, but that’s just because of my hardware setup. (Halo Infinite + Intel ARC + Linux = Game can’t even launch. Worked fine with an AMD card, but when I upgraded late last year it borked. Known problem with Vulkan, DX12, and ARC)
Try doing professional level photo editing on Linux
I can be on a tirade about this. If only Krita decided to expand their focus instead of being conservative about their goals, or if GIMP actually had competent people years ago. But, now I’m at a point where I just don’t give a damn about FOSS editing, and fine with let it all burn.
Lol! I’m fine with GIMP, actually. As a matter of fact, I prefer it to Photoshop. That’s likely due to GIMP being my first introduction to photo manipulation though, and so I’m used to its paradigm.
Photo EDITING, though? There’s no competition on Linux for the likes of Lightroom or Capture One Pro (my preferred RAW editing software). I gave up photography for a while because I hated editing my photos on Linux so much. I tried EVERY alternative Linux had to offer, and they all suck. Eventually, I started carrying around a USB-C SD card reader and just transferring photos of my camera to my phone to edit them in Snapseed of all things, I hated editing on Linux so much.
My try with GIMP is that I find that the interface is clunky, and the absence of non-destructive editing, and it’s nowhere near the level of Krita/PS at a mechanical level. I tried the version with NDE in GIMP, but I just hate the flow and I find the absence of ease of access to filter as well as lack of inherent mask a issue. So, I’ll stick with Krita instead, and it works out for my needs, but I’m not fully satisfied unless I have better selection tools in there.
Yea, that was my take as well. Try RawTherapee, they said. Nope, inferior, there were some photos where I could spot them in full-screen view, not even at 100%.
The one everyone always drones on and on about is Darktable… Don’t get me wrong, it’s a powerful piece of software. But… It’s lackluster compared to the competition. I used it for a long time, figuring if I just made myself keep using it I’d get used to it… And then I actually stopped and thought about that sentence, lol. I shouldn’t have to Stockholm’s myself into liking a piece of software.
It really doesn’t. My girlfriend needed to enable the Japanese keyboard on Kubuntu. That required half an hour of searching documentation and forum posts about how to install/enable FCITX5, then another hour debugging to find out it doesn’t work on apps installed via snap.
I still haven’t been able to come up with a KDE based distro (because it’s way more familiar to Windows users) that actually meets the needs of non technical users.
Don’t use snaps.
People shouldn’t be using Ubuntu either but I suppose that’s not going to happen. Just use a derivative like Linux Mint
This is, again, an atypical use-case. Despite that, it’s not hard to find the answers. Googling for “Linux Japanese keyboard layout” comes up with an easy-to-follow guide in the first 5 search results, literally on the Ubuntu forums. Understand I’m not saying the use case is particularly RARE, but it’s not the norm either. And honestly, Snap sucks anyway. 😂
It could certainly be better supported and better documented, but you’re looking through the lens of your specific experience, not realizing your experience is not that of the every day, average PC user.
Put up a dart board of the most widely used KDE distributions and throw a dart. You’ve got a KDE distro that actually meets the needs of a non-technical user. Kubuntu, Linux Mint’s KDE edition, Fedora, OpenSUSE, hell throw Manjaro with KDE on. The desktop environment has zero bearing on a distro’s ability to act like a computer, it’s only the paint on the walls. If a distro “fits the needs of a non-technical user” by your definition with, say, GNOME or Cinnamon or XFCE or Budgie or whatever else, it’ll do it with KDE too. Desktop environment != distribution.
Windows is frustrating for average people, the thing is that they get used to ms bullshit because they think there are no other way.
Understanding Linux kernel is medium hard, but not frustrating. Using a DE is NOT frustrating if you understand what’s up with their core ideals. D-Bus, HOOKS, env variables… meh I can give you that. But 95% of users live in the web and/or office apps. And for that literally any flavor of Linux will do. My in laws would never in their lifetimes be able to distinguish Arch + KDE + SDDM + themes from Windows. I can bet my right testicle.
Linux isn’t frustrating at all. Not sure what you’re on about.
@aniki k
That’s a fair criticism, but I wouldn’t recommend Windows as a daily driver to 95% of people either. If you like/care/know about computers, use Linux, otherwise I’d recommend MacOS over Windows (unless said person uses their computer for gaming, in which case Windows’ll give you the least hassle)
Really? MacOS? Why’s that? I’ve never had the pleasure of working with a Mac, but I’d be open to trying it.
Actually, I’m thinking about picking a previous gen MacBook for my wife, I just need some confirmation on how it handles The Sims and Minecraft… 😂
I am honestly guessing but as long there’s mac compatibility on those (older) games I’d expect them to run just fine. MacOS is probably my favorite OS from an overall coherency standpoint, power with the command line, aesthetics and usability. You’re just not going to find a lot of overlap between people who use linux and the traditional mac crowd (except when it comes to software development weirdly, which is where I sit), but it is criminally underdiscussed around here every time Windows enshittifies. (BTW, not a fanboy, running multiple Windows, Linux and MacOS systems at home)
Why does the OS have to recommend you apps?
In case you accidentally misplaced your brain in the trash, for example.
Don’t do computer tasks if you’re drunk?
As a software developer, I don’t understand the premise of your suggestion.
Just in case you didn’t have enough apps installed from the factory.
Everyone? This shit will be on my work computer???
I’m not sure tbh, but this should be deactivateable by gpos. Work machines should not be affected if the IT staff is on to it.
I hope they are and the world will be forced to either make a law against it or goodbye windows because fu.
Imagine having to pay employees to watch ads that make microsoft money, what a fucking joke that would be.
When they rolled out the beta Microsoft said it wouldn’t be, but they could always change their mind with the general release. Excerpt from a previous Verge article about the beta rollout (https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/12/24128640/microsoft-windows-11-start-menu-ads-app-recommendations):
“This will appear only for Windows Insiders in the Beta Channel in the US and will not apply to commercial devices (devices managed by organizations),” says Microsoft in a blog post.
Unfortunately, this article doesn’t actually quote Microsoft saying it’s rolling out to ALL machines. That bit in the article is from the author.
Fucking unhinged idiocracy. Capitalism is the cancer of humanity
Good thing I switched to Linux 10 years ago. No regrets.
Sudoer for about 18 now. Full on Year of the Linux Desktop for about 5 years now.
The
spiceshit must flowI’m just here waiting for my wife to finally snap and ask about getting Linux on her gaming PC. I’ve been using it for 20 years now. The complaints are becoming more and more numerous these days, it’s only a matter of time.
You could also disable all this shit pretty easily too, for about the same amount of effort as getting someone acclimated to a new OS.
Every single bullshit thing these articles bring up, there’s simple controls built into Windows to handle. Most easily through Group Policy with a Pro license, easily bought from an OEM license seller for $20 or just spoofed.
For this bullshit in particular: Settings > Personalization > Start and turn off the toggle for “Show recommendations for tips, app promotions, and more.”
That’s the thing, she’s getting tired of having to do all that bullshit and then getting a lot of it reverted during an update. The annoyances are starting to outweigh the convenience. She’s not dumb, she knows her way around computers and is well aware of methods to disable this crap.
for every person that figures out how to disable this stuff, there are many thousands of others who don’t, don’t bother, or don’t even know it might be possible to… which is why they pull this shit in the first place–and (usually) get away with it.
They aren’t even labeled as ads/paid promotion, so I wonder if this even got legal’s input. Something the FTC probably might be interested in.
