- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
Chinese technology companies are paving the way for a world that will be powered by electric motors rather than gas-guzzling engines. It is a decisively 21st-century approach not just to solve its own energy problems, but also to sell batteries and other electric products to everyone else. Canada is its newest buyer of EVs; in a rebuke of Mr. Trump, its prime minister, Mark Carney, lowered tariffs on the cars as part of a new trade deal.
Though Americans have been slow to embrace electric vehicles, Chinese households have learned to love them. In 2025, 54 percent of new cars sold in China were either battery-powered or plug-in hybrids. That is a big reason that the country’s oil consumption is on track to peak in 2027, according to forecasts from the International Energy Agency. And Chinese E.V makers are setting records — whether it’s BYD’s sales (besting Tesla by battery-powered vehicles sold for the first time last year) or Xiaomi’s speed (its cars are setting records at major racetracks like Nürburgring in Germany).
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I’d sooner buy a Chinese EV than a Tesla, but the orange gameshow host running my country says I can’t.
I can hold out on not buying a new car a hell of a lot longer than the American economy can survive under a tariff regime.
I want a fucking Huawei P70. The 10x camera on that thing can practically take stabilized macro photos from a 5 m distance. But Ursula says Orange Man will spank her if she allows competition to Apple and Google.
I wouldn’t buy that even if it wasn’t banned, locked bootloader and spyware preinstalled at all levels
I thought America was a democracy as opposed to China.
US is the same as China now. Well that’s not true, US foreign policy is way more batshit insane than China’s. If you can even call it a foreign policy… it seems to me it’s just the whims of a deranged old child molester surrounded by fucking Nazis.
And China is further away and there’s pretty much zero probability China will invade my country. With the US, who knows? Kinda stupid to send money to a country I may have to be fighting against within a year.
there’s pretty much zero probability China will invade my country.
Boots on the ground invasion? Sure, not likely.
But that’s because China long ago realized the wars to be fought in the 21st century are economic… and they’re way ahead.
Trump is following in china’s footsteps. His longterm plan will fail because he is not authoritarian enough to retain power. If the CCP were in his shoes they’d have murdered millions of americans to ideologically cleanse the country.
Trump is on it dummy
Using photo-generating AI has become a mixed bag for me.
It’s not far from the truth
yeah this is a great example of him not being authorization enough to follow in ccp footsteps. For this to be a proper comparison it would have to be ice murdering 1000s of unarmed protestors not 1.
1000s you say
For Australians (alas, big Teska supporters) and much of the world they are all made in China anyway.
Yes, China has very purposefully put itself at the forefront of the first technological revolution of the 21st century and done this at multiple levels (solar panel production, battery tech, EVs)
Meanwhile the American elites have decided that 19th century technology is were they want to be. Well, that and dead ending killing the country’s lead in the Tech revolution by going down a branch with no future in the form of LLMs and making everybody lose trust in keeping their data in anything owned by American companies.
And, of course, the crooked politicians here in Europe are actually following America more than China in this.
It is a lot more complex than “Europe is actually following America more than China in this”.
Europe have very limited lithium deposits compared to China. Europe is trying to be as self sustaining as possible, especially now that the US have shown themselves to be a highly unreliable partner.
So exchanging one dependency for another is a poor lateral move at best.
You can’t just start digging up the entire ground and make car batteries out of all lithium you find.
European universities all over are researching alternative battery technology that doesn’t rely as much on lithium.
Yeah, well, there’s no Oil in Europe either, so ICE cars are even worse for a self-sustaining Europe (at least Lithum is only consumed once for an EV car, whilst Oil is consumed all the time for ICE cars)
If Europe can constantly source Oil from abroad to keep ICE cars going, I’m sure it can also source (a far lower quantity of) Lithium from abroad to make cars that can then run on electric power produced right here in Europe.
Your entire “argument” is one big cherry picked excuse.
Yeah, well, there’s no Oil in Europe either,
C’mon. I’m a dumb American, but even I know without looking it up about Norway’s vast petroleum production as well as the North Sea petroleum platforms off the coast of Scotland.
I’m not arguing for oil. Yet the current production costs for lithium batteries, compared to their lifecycle, rivals that of combustion propulsion. That doesn’t mean we should stop researching and finding better methods. But it’s far from as “environmentally” friendly as you think it is.
Oh, and Europe have oil. Plenty of it. Where would you like start? The coast outside Norway? The vast natural gas reserves in western Russia? The ocean outside of Scotland, maybe it just happenes to be a shit ton of oil under Greenland which is 100% unrelated to why Trump wants to own it.
I’m still not arguing for or against oil. I’m saying Europe isn’t following the US, and Europe isn’t interested in following China either. Europe is interested in carving out sustainability for themselves without US or China.
Erm you really shouldn’t trust American companies with your data https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act
Well informed people knew that it wasn’t safe already for quite a while.
Most people did not, most companies did not, most public institutions either did not or could make believed they did not.
That’s changing (as are lots of other things) because Trump is being far more loud about how Europe is an adversary of America than previous administrations (it was too for Democrats, though only on business and trade terms)
There was quite a lot of fighting against treating America as a safe haven for the data of Europeans from people in the know in Tech and IT Security in Europe but we lost, but now crooked politicians can’t make believe America or American companies are safe for the data of Europeans anymore.
Our Danish company Ørsted which produces wind power, has been in a huge legal dispute with the American administration for months over this. He wants oil, even if wind is cheaper:
He wants oil even if the wind is cheaper, the wind farm is almost finished and already producing power
Yeah because it’s not so much “he wants” as “oil and gas corporations are paying him for”.
Oil is the longest word he can spell without spellcheck.
He managed to spell enigma pretty well.
Nonsense. We all know he can spell Ghina.
Yeah, conservatives don’t think of the future except through the lens of the present. They can’t imagine a world with EVs and batteries because they have oil brains. They are looking for solutions to problems with an oil first mindset. Sunk cost is everything.
Need to remember where they are getting paid from as well. That’s oil money lining their pockets.
It’s not conservatives, it’s money and power.
That’s in part because they see their future through the lens of them oppressing objective developments, so EVs and batteries will never happen in that fantasy. They took a liking to AI for example despite it being relatively new development purely because it helped them in that department. They will only embrace something if it’s ‘their’ idea, and they have a lot of shitty ideas.
He’s a corrupt moron.
Batteries, yes. Chinese? Not necessarily for long.
One is an energy and material source. The other is neither and is simply storage.
Why would you compare them?
they are shutting down refineries all over the country because people aren’t buying as much gas as they used to
I saw an IEA (i think it was ) estimate that China reduced oil consumption by 1.6 million barrels a day already becase of their EV rollout (cars and buses).
I imagine electricity generation is also transitioning away from diesel
I don’t think anyone is using diesel for electricity generation except remote locations.
And backups.
Getting under $60/bbl has been a big deal. But a lot of that has just been the economy slowing.
China isn’t set to rule the world, they’re set up for collapse, be it in 10 years or 100. It’s just another cruel dictatorship in a long line.
I hate Trump, but I hate Xi Jinping with an equal fervor, they’re two of the same.
I hate Trump, but I hate Xi Jinping with an equal fervor
Is this your equivalent to magats posting “TDS”
Version 2.0 uses memes
There’s definitely an element of reflexive “China Bad!” in these predictions of imminent collapse. But I do feel like I’m talking to a KHiver doing the High Hopes dance in late October 2024.
The irrationality of the China Hawks feels endless. This country is simultaneously about the launch a Third World War on every regional neighbor and mere weeks away from complete societal implosion. It’s always on the verge of some kind of cataclysm that will Change Everything.
The sentiment seems to parallel people predicting the end of the AI bubble, people predicting that Trump will keel over and die from Oldtimers in the next few days, and people insisting they’re holding a winning lottery ticket two days before the drawing. Just total divorce from material conditions.
You think the USA is going to start WWIII? Bro, look around, China and Russia keep invading and occupying nearby nations. If it’s happening then it was already started by them.
You know what the best evidence is for “China Bad”? They promoted and endorsed Donald Trump, even utilized their TikTok psyops for his reelection.
You think the USA is going to start WWIII?
Greenland does. Venezuela does. Iran does.
You know what the best evidence is for “China Bad”? They promoted and endorsed Donald Trump
Honestly, where do you even get this shit? The people who promoted Donald Trump were Americans. And they’d been promoting him since the 1970s. Nobody in China gave a shit about Trump until January 6th, 2017.
Yeah China is like the Soviet Union.
My grandparents had to hold their noses and be allies with the Soviet Union for a while.
But unlike the Soviet Union which was way behind the West in technology, China is ahead of us on EVs and we will have to catch up. But before worrying about that, we gotta take down the US.
China is a democracy with 9 political parties as compared to America which has 2. Over 90% of Chinese people support the government. You’re allowed to criticize the government contrary to CIA propaganda.
This has gotta be framed, its beautiful.
Can other countries forgo their climate commitments and scale up coal productions to compete in manufacturing or only China?
All other countries curently forgo their climate commitments to “win” the AI race. (Whatever that even means)
Why not? For most countries there is 0 point in switching to renewables since the largest polluter in the world is still scaling coal power and currently polluting more than the 2,3,4,5,6 biggest polluters combined. India will go through similar power needs and the world can barely handle a few more years of chinese pollution let alone adding india to the mix. The US is also scaling power using fossil fuels so it looks like any efforts done by the rest of the world will be completely pointless.
Australia’s economy has been in a tailspin precisely because China hasn’t been buying enough coal.
Fortunately, India, Maylasia, and Indonesia have picked up the slack at the prodding of fossil fuel interests.
Not it hasnt. A small drop in exports to china isnt enough to send the austrialian economy into a tailspin. Chinese coal imports globally dropped only 9% last year (and domestic production increased to meet that deficit for all those thinking china isnt polluting the world). Keep in mind this 9% decrease comes after a record amount of coal imports in 2024.
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Not that Trump is right but, how will we charge said batteries…?
There’s this really neat thing called nuclear reactors that produce an enormous amount of energy. It’s only been around for ~70 years but they look promising.
Right. And how many countries currently use or are planning to use this In a large scale capacity besides France? Oh yea.
No need to be a dickhead.
Works pretty damn well for France. Maybe we should follow their lead.
I wholeheartedly agree with that. Doesn’t seem like anyone is though unfortunately.
Works great in Finland.
I charge my BYD Han and my wife’s Tang with Solar. No issues there.
That is excellent and cost effective, however what then when there’s no sun out or it’s cloudy? Will you not travel?
This is one of the concerns I have watched with interest ……
- with the first mass market push to wind “grid won’t be stable with any significant amount”
- as wind and solar became more popular “renewables can only be 30% without destabilizing the grid
- this past summer “with today’s renewables and storage technology, the cheapest most stable option is 95% of the grid”
Your concern may be technically and historically valid but is rapidly disappearing
That’s about right. I have product tío and storage at a 115% of my consumption, which translates to actually using some grid because the sun is not always out (although you would think it is where I live, lol). That allows me to finish the year with an excess credit of about 200 dollars with the electric company, but I still use some of the grid during hurricane season and very rainy periods of 3 or more days, which rarely happens.
however what then when there’s no sun out or it’s cloudy?
You’re not going to believe this, but solar panels will still work even when the light is reflected or partially blocked by clouds. Rain actually helps to keep your panels operating efficiently by washing away any dust or dirt. If you live in an area with a strong net metering policy, excess energy generated by your panels during sunny hours will offset energy that you use at night and other times when your system isn’t operating at full capacity.
That’s crazy. I never would’ve guessed. Did you also know solar panels have a theoretical limit of 33%, which is diminished even more when sunlight is further blocked? Wow! That means they’re horribly inefficient and even more so when less light comes in! Who knew! So really we’re talking about pennies on the dollar at the end of the day when something like supplying a grid at a larger level would mean nuclear.
Did you also know solar panels have a theoretical limit of 33%
Did you know fractions are predicated on a base value?
So really we’re talking about pennies on the dollar at the end of the day
That’s definitely an aphorism.
That’s what the batteries are for?
Source : I drive an EV on cloudy days.
In my case wind turbines. My local utility produces more wind power in a year than customers use.
Funny thing. Cloudy and rainy days tend to be windier than sunny days. So, with a bit of battery reserve or net metering, it all balances out.
Wind turbines can’t meet the energy demand of the infrastructure unfortunately. Nuclear is the most feasible option however, with the exception of France, no country has really committed to an energy source that can adequately support charging all these batteries albeit oil, natural gas, renewable energy etc. Oil and natural gas still continue to be the cheapest
