The world is up-in-arms over Windows Recall, but why? It stems from Microsoft's seeming lack of care for Windows and its users.

It’s a nightmare scenario for Microsoft. The headlining feature of its new Copilot+ PC initiative, which is supposed to drive millions of PC sales over the next couple of years, is under significant fire for being what many say is a major breach of privacy and security on Windows. That feature in question is Windows Recall, a new AI tool designed to remember everything you do on Windows. The feature that we never asked and never wanted it.

Microsoft, has done a lot to degrade the Windows user experience over the last few years. Everything from obtrusive advertisements to full-screen popups, ignoring app defaults, forcing a Microsoft Account, and more have eroded the trust relationship between Windows users and Microsoft.

It’s no surprise that users are already assuming that Microsoft will eventually end up collecting that data and using it to shape advertisements for you. That really would be a huge invasion of privacy, and people fully expect Microsoft to do it, and it’s those bad Windows practices that have led people to this conclusion.

  • dmtalon@infosec.pubEnglish
    41·
    1 year ago

    Ya, a PR nightmare for the next 15 minutes until the next unbelievable thing comes along and the ADD nature of people forgets windows is watching everything they do.

    • assassinatedbyCIA@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      1 year ago

      I agree with your point, but I think it’s important not to forget just how shitty tech media is a holding these companies to account. Half the shit most mainstream tech journalist publish borders on hagiography for these companies.

    • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.worldEnglish
      0·
      1 year ago

      That’s usually what I think too, but after watching how Twitter’s gone to shit since the two big user departures, I think this could legitimately affect Microsoft’s bottom line.

    • gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      0·
      1 year ago

      Ok fine, I’ll repeat it again:

      You’re right - many consumers will likely forget about it and just use it anyways. But enterprise customers absolutely, categorically will not. Even with their damage control, this is still going to hurt them a lot. Moreover, it’s going to hurt hardware sales from Intel, AMD, and Qualcomm, all of which have dumped MASSIVE amounts of capital into this tech. This is going to slow the rollout of NN-optimized chip tiles, and that is going to directly hit their bottom line. Microsoft hurt themselves AND the three most important hardware partners they have.

  • EnderMB@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1·
    1 year ago

    Outside of the “Microsoft bad” comments, this is a prime example of why big tech companies need to stop promoting AI leads to a position where they are able to have influence over initiatives outside of AI.

    The worst thing to happen to basically every product/service in tech right now is AI. It’s made Google unreliable in the eyes of normal people for the first time in decades, it’s destroying trust in Amazon content across reviews and Kindle, it’s adding features to Facebook that no one ever wanted, etc.

  • naeap@sopuli.xyzEnglish
    1·
    1 year ago

    Microsoft has built a number of safety features into Windows Recall to ensure that the service can’t run secretly in the background. When Windows Recall is enabled, it places a permanent visual indicator icon on the Taskbar to let the user know that Windows Recall is capturing data. This icon cannot be hidden or moved.

    Oh my, that one is really cute

  • AWittyUsername@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1·
    1 year ago

    Apple ensures its operating systems are clean, polished, and without bloat.

    Except for all the uninstallable Apple bloat such as Apple Music, Apple TV, etc. And the numerous bugs and issues, such as still not being able to have the touch pad and mouse scroll wheel have different settings.

    • Echo Dot@feddit.ukEnglish
      1·
      1 year ago

      I remember when everyone was complaining about how terrible Safari is. The lead developer started having a go and ranting on Twitter, saying that raising bug reports is not constructive feedback.

      That was a mess.

    • billwashere@lemmy.worldEnglish
      0·
      1 year ago

      Apple is not blameless but they are a shit-ton better than Microsoft. I have to have M$ for a few work apps but I’m primarily MacOS for desktop and Linux for everything server-side. I avoid M$ as much as possible.

    • Weslee@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3·
      1 year ago

      I’m using windows 11 and after hearing about recall and all the other shit they’ve done, I’ve finally decided to make the jump to Linux

      So for atleast me, this was the final straw

      • nelson@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2·
        1 year ago

        I had dabbled in gaming on Linux but never made the jump. After reading about recall I spent a week making my choice on OS of choice ( and then I switched a week after :') ).

        I’m fully on Linux now. Even if they fully back down from windows recall I dont need an OS that’s trying to sell me something based on whatever I do in it.

        It was my final straw as well.

        Edit: and it hasn’t really been bad either. The shader compilation after every gfx driver update is a bit annoying. That’s about it.

        I’ll probably run into something at one point. Like some anti cheat that doesn’t work and is preventing me from playing the game.

          • sgtgig@lemmy.worldEnglish
            1·
            1 year ago

            A couple people recommended Fedora spins but I’d recommend just sticking with the big distros (that have up-to-date graphics drivers readily available - so not Debian.) A lot of the gaming-focused distros are only saving you a few terminal commands and increase your risk of running into issues; they’re good, but they may not be as 100% stable as you’ll find in major long-running distros like Fedora or Mint.

            I have settled on Fedora with KDE Plasma. Here’s basically everything I copy pasted for gaming:

            # install steam, discord, nvidia drivers
sudo dnf install https://mirrors.rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/rpmfusion-free-release-$(rpm -E %fedora).noarch.rpm https://mirrors.rpmfusion.org/nonfree/fedora/rpmfusion-nonfree-release-$(rpm -E %fedora).noarch.rpm -y
sudo dnf config-manager --enable fedora-cisco-openh264 -y
sudo dnf update -y
sudo dnf install steam discord akmod-nvidia xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-cuda

# install bluetooth Xbox driver
sudo dnf install git dkms
cd /tmp
git clone https://github.com/atar-axis/xpadneo.git && cd xpadneo
sudo ./install.sh

            I also had to enable Legacy X11 App Support through the settings gui so that Discord could receive push to talk presses without having focus.

  • jet@hackertalks.comEnglish
    1·
    1 year ago

    Not really

    For the retail market, most people just have phones not computers anymore. Microsoft has already lost The Battle of Windows phone.

    For the Enterprise market none of this recent b******* is going to enterprise customers anyway, they would have group policies and volume licensing deals to avoid all the b*******.

    For those poor retail customers who still run Windows, they suffer, but they’re minor, not significant

  • PerogiBoi@lemmy.caEnglish
    1·
    1 year ago

    I figured on my gaming and VR rig that I’d begrudgingly upgrade it to W11 when W10 stopped receiving security updates and support but at this point the recall feature (which will be used to train LLMs regardless of what Microsoft promises or guarantees) has ensured that I never install that kind of spyware as an operating system.

    I’d rather spend forever troubleshooting and getting my Valve Index to work with Ubuntu than deal with a giant backdoor.

    • areyouevenreal@lemm.eeEnglish
      11·
      1 year ago

      I wouldn’t go for Ubuntu. They are also run by a corporation that has done problematic things with the project. It also just doesn’t work that well anymore. Better off going for something Debian or Fedora based, or even an Ubuntu derivative like Pop OS.

        • rtxn@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1·
          1 year ago

          It’s Debian-based, but Canonical has been really Microsofty about its development. They now have Snap as a universal packaging format, and have mandated that all official Ubuntu flavors (so X/K/Lubuntu and others, but not derivatives like Mint) must include Snap, and must not include Flatpak in the default installation. They’ve also fucked with APT where installing certain packages, like Firefox, would first install Snap and then the application’s Snap package, without even telling the user. They’ve had some controversy with Amazon ads in the search results, and advertising Ubuntu Pro in the fucking terminal. The default GNOME desktop also has a ton of issues.

          I, and many others, recommend against Ubuntu. Linux Mint is the most commonly recommended “just works” distro. That being said, switching to Ubuntu, if able, is still preferable to staying on Windows.

  • CaptPretentious@lemmy.worldEnglish
    0·
    1 year ago

    This is status quo for every large corporation. Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, EVERY SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORM, Roku… They all, ALL, push boundaries to see what they can get away with to not only sell you something, but also make you the thing they sell. Sometimes they’re bold enough to make it public what they’re doing, sometimes, it’s a leak that happens when people find out how little the company actually cares about it’s users (Apple, so many user data leaks).

    • Shelbyeileen@lemmy.worldEnglish
      0·
      1 year ago

      My bigger concern is that almost every company now has it in their contracts/terms of services, that all users are not allowed to participate in a lawsuit, be it class action, or court case against them Most of them even have a maximum sue limit too! There’s a lot that have a rule that initial arbitration cannot have a lawyer, but that won’t be enforced.

          • Wiz@midwest.socialEnglish
            0·
            1 year ago

            Sorry, this may be unpopular, but software license click-through agreements are enforceable.

            Source: I’m not a lawyer, but worked in a software contracts office with lawyers, so some of it ruined off. Essentially your legal options are, use the software according to the license agreement, or don’t use the software.

            A third option would be, I guess, use open source software so you don’t deal with that bullshit.

            Edit: Part of it is wrapped up in the Uniform Commercial Code, which is a whole bundle of standard laws which is quite complex. Basically you pays your money, and you get a thing, but there are all sports of knobs and levers to handle every contingency. You can nope out of the transaction, but you don’t get the thing.

              • Wiz@midwest.socialEnglish
                0·
                1 year ago

                Maybe?

                Again, I’m not a lawyer, but I’ve read a lot of EULAs.

                However, to challenge that, your have to sue Microsoft, against their team of super-lawyers, the best that Microsoft could buy. And you’d have to do it in the jurisdiction started in the license agreement, which is undoubtedly friendly to Microsoft. And you’d have to have some sort of standing, meaning you have suffered some actual damage from the thing you arguing against, and that you want remedied. So you sue for damages, but it can only be for the amount that you were actually damaged, which is problematic - especially for free Microsoft software. But for paid software, I’m sure there’s a return/refund clause which would make you whole.

                And you are paying your own lawyer to Microsoft, right? How long do you plan to sue Microsoft? I guarantee they have deeper pockets than you, and can outlast you in court. And remember if you lose the lawsuit, you will probably be countersued for the cost of their lawyers.

                Basically the EULAs are written by Microsoft’s very expensive lawyers. Other corporations cower in fear of Microsoft’s lawyers; I know the ones in my office did. And the rewards you’d get would be a Pyrrhic victory at best. “Do you feel lucky, punk?”

  • egeres@lemmy.worldEnglish
    0·
    1 year ago

    I do think that the concept of recall is very interesting, I want to explore a FOSS version where you have complete ownership of your data in a secure manner

    • JasSmith@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      1·
      1 year ago

      Yeah the concept is pretty damn cool. It’s just horrifying to have a company own and control that data. I suspect this is like Xbox One launch disaster in 2013, in which Microsoft initially required all consoles to have an always-online connection. People rebelled, but today and certainly on our current trajectory, it now looks like Microsoft was just a little ahead of the curve. I think people will eventually become a lot more comfortable with companies owning their data because the benefits will be so enormous. I’m not happy about that future, but I think I understand it.

  • secretlyaddictedtolinux@lemmy.worldBannedEnglish
    0·
    1 year ago

    Most male computer uses watch porn and would not want an AI to log that. Many women find porn sickening and don’t understand it and will never understand male urges that result in watching it. The fact that this got into a finished product tells you a lot about Microsoft’s corporate culture.

    No one working there really cares about the company enough to bring up uncomfortable issues, they are all there just to get their paycheck and actual outcomes be damned. The culture their must be toxic for this product to have been put into a product enabled by default.

    If this was a top-down decision and there was no input by others into it, it leads to questions over whether this feature was forced to be included by the government, which can easily require corporations to do anything and then issue gag orders and whether it was some sort of test to see how much intrusive spying bullshit that regular consumers will tolerate now. If this was a feature that was forced into the product, the plan may have been to turn it off by default after negative feedback, but then just keep it in the program for when governments want to turn it on. Governments may have realized it in any capacity such a terrible feature would result in outrage and may have thought this was the path of least resistance, like saying “Would you like to eat a bowl of shit? No, okay, we’ll just give you these brussel sprouts”

    • JasSmith@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      11·
      1 year ago

      Most male computer uses watch porn and would not want an AI to log that. Many women find porn sickening and don’t understand it and will never understand male urges that result in watching it. The fact that this got into a finished product tells you a lot about Microsoft’s corporate culture.

      Excellent point. We saw exactly the same phenomenon play out with Google and Gemini. The tool created racially diverse Nazis. Even a few minutes with the tool revealed major issues. There must have been hundreds of people who witnessed the slow moving train crash in realtime, but were either unwilling or unable to speak out. I think these companies have clearly cultivated a hierarchical culture of fear and intimidation. I recently left a job in which my manager was ex-Google. The stories she would tell were appalling. Her command-and-control style was, frankly, disgusting. She permitted zero critical feedback or discussion. It was her way or “fuck off.” I found that very instructive as to how these companies have morphed into shells of their formers selves. I’m not bullish on the future of these companies. They’re coasting very well on the fumes of their historical successes, and I think their demise is all but assured.

  • Dra@lemmy.zipEnglish
    0·
    1 year ago

    Buy a mac or support steamOS adoption or just get a linux distro. This will drive the improvement of nontechnical consumer GNU/Linux

    • dumpsterlid@lemmy.worldEnglish
      0·
      1 year ago

      It is okay to be the person that always recommends Linux, especially if you are a kind person with the patience to explain things to people in approachable terms (and you don’t just scream at people SOMEBODY ALREADY ASKED THIS QUESTION USE SEARCH whenever a newbie walks in the door and asks the obvious questions a newbie would ask).

      Now is the time, Linux is pulled up out front waiting to pick us up (with bags packed) and Microsoft is loudly shitting the bed upstairs, NOW is the time to walk straight out the front door, jump in the car with Linux and never look back. We owe it to Microsoft’s long relationship with consumers to leave Microsoft sitting confused on the porcelain throne wondering why they were abandoned and where all the toilet paper is (we are the toilet paper in this metaphor).

          • dumpsterlid@lemmy.worldEnglish
            2·
            1 year ago

            I mean… how big really is the category of software tasks that you can’t properly do on Linux in 2024? I feel like it is getting to the point where you do genuinely have to be specific about what Linux can’t do that is a dealbreaker for you rather than just falling back on “Linux can’t do what people need to do” as a general criticism of it.

            Windows can’t do what people need it to do, and it fails to do so while sucking up your private data (which if you work at a business with confidential information IS a dealbreaker). At least when Linux fails it usually isn’t simultaneously violating the IT security structure of your organization….

            The funny thing is businesses and government entities can’t even claim with a straight face that they can trust Microsoft to adhere to the meager insufficient data privacy laws that do exist when there is zero evidence Microsoft would behave that way based on the track record even if the financial penalties for failing to do so were actually real to the ruling class and not just theoretical thought experiments that involve a slap on the wrist or more like a light tickling with a feather on the nose.

            • Cosmicomical@lemmy.worldEnglish
              1·
              1 year ago

              Oh i totally agree with you. I have a feeling that the only real obstacle on the way out from windows is proprietary software, especially adobe and some custom apps for specific hardware.