I’m on the fence with getting a new phone. Should I buy something now, like a Pixel 10 or Fairphone 6 and flash Graphene/eOs on it, or wait for next gen which might have these restrictions?
Time to popularize Linux phones. I read that the security model is lacking, but especially given that Android is Linux too, it shouldn’t be too difficult to catch up. The EU is also interested in tech independence, so that could be one of the sources of funding. And there are a few viable early projects, like Ubuntu Touch and Sailfish.
There need to be enforced of competition law here. Companies aren’t going to voluntarily support a platform with few users. Users aren’t going to move to a platform without critical apps.
We live in a dystopia were you have to have the banks app to do online banking even on your desktop. You can’t charge your car without an app. You can’t navigate your car without a map app that has traffic information. Etc etc. I want FOSS alternatives to all these, but there isn’t and Google could take even having a FOSS platform at all.
This something we need regulators to fix. It is a politically problem, not a technical one.
America screwing up trust should wake up Europe to dealing with American tech monopolies. Now it’s not something just nerds and economists complain about, it is a geopolitical problem.
Corporations are getting WAY too much fucking power over our personal lives, it’s at critical mass where their power is superseding that of our basic democratic rights.
We all knew it would happen, and here we are. We need to fight the fuck back with everything we’ve got, and coordination and planning is the first step.
There has to be something already happening, where do we sign up, who do we get in contact with? Where’s the team?
Does anyone know or have any leads on that? I have the possibility to devote my life full time to it and I’m feeling like me and many others are not being utilized the way we could and are capable of.
The fight was always going against these monopolies.
In the UK with have OpenRightGroup to some extent the Greens. In the US EFF, FSF, SFC. In the EU ESFe, Pirate Party, Greens.
There are many groups fighting the political cause. They have had victories over the years, but winning the odd battle doesn’t win a war. They all need support.
Until now, a lot of open source has tried to be nonpolitical, but that may be changing:
https://fosdem.org/2026/schedule/event/SFKNTZ-welcome_to_fosdem_2026/
Fully agree, there should be regulations, temporary at least, that require/incentivize critical companies to make a mobile Linux version of their apps, as well as strategic funding and incentives to make the platforms viable. We as citizens should contribute too, increasing pressure for this to happen, spreading the message, becoming early adopters where possible, submitting feedback, contributing to development, etc.
We need to support political groups fighting for us, not just think in terms of technology. In the UK it is OpenRightsGroup, maybe the Greens party, in Europe there is the Pirate Party, Greens, Free Software Foundation Europe, and more. We should be trying to get politicians into this.
you have to have the banks app to do online banking even on your desktop
I have never heard of that. Can you give an example?
HSBC business. There is no fob. You have to get a code from their app to login online. That app refused to run on LineageOS with MicroG, regardless of the boxing and lying to it I tried. It does work under GrapheneOS with boxed Google services.
That sounds obnoxious they don’t support the usual MFA platforms
And at the same time there’s Fidelity (and others) using voice authentication as the sole verification of account ownership when calling in (I think they finally fixed this a couple years ago)
It’s pretty rubbish. I was under pressure from a few angles to compromise more with Google. GrapheneOS is were I am. But I want to be on a prober Linux. But it’s just not possible without competition law being enforced. It’s political problem not technical.
Sailfish is not very alive. Ubuntu Touch too.
But honestly yes. I think the problems are mostly in hardware support.
The political problems driving the push for independence are fairly recent, so the current state is unlikely to be extrapolable.
There are devices using these operating systems that are also gaining popularity, like Jolla, Volla and Fair phone.
Android is not Linux (the OS), it just uses the Linux kernel. That means almost nothing is transferable from one OS to the other unfortunately.
That’s all Linux is though, arguably
yeah I will start deeply researching this because I refuse to use a closed down operating system for my phone my whole life. Fuck android fuck google and fuck apple
If this happens, I guess it’s Linux Phone time for me… I’m pretty certain GrapheneOS will be able to get around this abuse of power for a while, but it wouldn’t take much effort from Google to kill them too ; they almost already have…
Or maybe dumb phone time ? But I like browsing Wikipedia and playing chess and RetroArch on my phone, I don’t want to lose that just because big G$ said so…
Fwiw, just because a dumb phone doesn’t give you access to “smart” features doesn’t mean the capabilities aren’t present on the phone. It’s just a matter of what could be hidden on the circuit board (lots can be hidden in chips), and what can be hidden in usual expected traffic (if bandwidth requirements are low, even timing of packets could be used to encode hidden data that would never show up in any logs).
Plus the simple tracking of cellphones is necessary for them to function at all.
The new Jolla phone can’t come soon enough. I truly believe the future of tech independence lies with linux, for us, europeans. Anyone welcome ofc.
I do hope it’ll be a good enough device, even if there will be no NFC phone payments possible.
Not sure how I should feel about this, if I should support the cause to keep android “open” (when it’s everything but), or if I should be happy that this piece of shit OS finally shows it’s true colours and people (including me) will finally be forced to find an alternative or stop using this trashware all together.
And hopefully developers finally get serious about GNU/Linux phones.
Until Linux Phones get good, we are seeing a very rough sail ahead. Or just hard fork Android ig if it’s a logical option.
I understand, but there’s a good argument that android is the reason why GNU/Linux phones don’t get good.
The death of android as an “open” platform would put some pressure to actual develop an alternative.
It won’t die. My country alone will have almost a billion Android users and those cheap Androids are all they can afford and know.
I meant that it would die as an “open” platform, so power users would be compelled to stop using android.
I hope that but power users don’t dictate the technological development 🥲. Everything is made for people who want it “user-friendly”.
They aren’t competitive with Android or iOS phones presently — don’t have the scale of userbase — but there’s only one way that that’s going to change, and that’s people starting to use them.
(“Linux” here as in “GNU/Linux”, as opposed to “the Linux kernel”, which Android phones also use.)
EDIT: Another option is to try to shift software use off of mobile devices as far as is practical, if you’re willing to carry a second, larger device like a laptop. Just use the smartphone as a phone and as a modem for Internet access via tethering. I’ve generally been aiming to do that myself. I realize that that’s not practical for everyone.
That approach does have some perks — you can get your audio jack, because the space constraints of a phone go away. You aren’t dependent upon your hardware manufacturer for N years of updates before your hardware is forced to become out-of-date software-wise. The devices are generally a lot more capable and upgradeable. The hardware is more modular, and there are considerably more options. You can run whatever software you want.
But…it’s bigger, the software library isn’t generally optimized for small touchscreen use, so one-handed use while waiting in line isn’t generally ideal, and it consumes more power. You can run some Android software via stuff like Waydroid, but I’m sure that software that requires a trusted hardware stack won’t accept that.
(“Linux” here as in “GNU/Linux”, as opposed to “the Linux kernel”, which Android phones also use.)
I feel compelled to point out that PostmarketOS, one of the popular Linux phone options is not, in fact GNU. It’s based on musl and BusyBox, not glibc and GNU utils.
That’s generally true. Personally, I enjoy using a laptop way more than using a mobile device of any kind.
However, modern life is beginning to require mobile apps (Android or iOS). More and more things simply aren’t available as a website or FOSS. You have to have a vanilla mainstream mobile device to do certain things like using your bank account. I really hate that.
Hardware peripherals are another area that really sucks. If you want to enjoy the comforts of modern life, many people just bow down and use one of the two mobile platforms in order to use their smart ring/scale/lights/curtains/heating/car, etc.
Resisting all that is getting increasingly difficult, because there’s so much to resist. On the other hand, resisting is also becoming increasingly appealing as enshittification intensifies.
We need alternatives to big tech. They’re reigning in and locking everything they can down, and the states are loving them for it as it solidifies their ability to control us.
What we need is a good linux phone that is affordable, has hardware that isn’t slow, and isn’t over sold to an annual pre-order.
Sadly, if the first two are true, the third one becomes an issue.
What we need is a large company to see that is a sign of huge pent-up demand. Apparently, HP and Dell are both talking about switching to Linux as their default OS for desktops. Once all the desktop manufacturers find themselves in the business of selling hardware with Linux on it, either mobile manufacturers will copy, like Samsung, or the desktop folks decide to make their product smaller.
What everyone has wanted from the beginning was a desktop in their pocket. The amount of time that no one has produced that despite major demand, and the amount of development that has gone into building any other stack, just feels like willful suppression at this point.
Is there some government somewhere telling large-scale manufacturers that they can’t build something as free and open as a desktop that isn’t at least the size of a laptop? Because it actually takes less technology to make something that’s open than something that is closed. And there is just as much appeal for the consumer to not restrict them.
What we need is a good linux phone that is affordable, has hardware that isn’t slow, and isn’t over sold to an annual pre-order.
That’s not enough, sadly. That phone must support, at the very least, all the national ID and banking software. And that bit might be tricky.
Europe is slowly working on that. Ironically, Trump’s policies were kind of a blessing to Europe, because it forced politicians to finally start working towards strengthening the independence of the region.
Those who have the expertise should start contributing and working more on Linux for mobile. Postmarket has made great progress it just needs more manpower
What kind of roles do they have for people who don’t know how to code? I’ve considered helping translate things before, but my languages are among the most popular, so it’s almost always already translated.
You should checkout their contibuting guide. There are many ways to contribute as non programmer.
Linux phones look more and more attractive
Graphene OS
As far as I know, it is still reliant on the whims of Google through shenanigans with AOSP, and of course having to use a Pixel.
Linux offers a more solid and independent foundation, and while it is less polished yet, to me it’s the only real way out in the long run.
Still, GrapheneOS is a big step in the right direction - hope it wouldn’t come across as me being against the project.
They’ve signed with an OEM (still secret atm, but the best guess seems to be Motorola?) who will produce the first flagship GrapheneOS device sometime this or next year iirc. Supposed to be revealing the manufacturer next month. That’ll at least take some of the Google dependency by having to use Pixels.
Motorola
Oh hello.
Yep, heard a bit about it. Didn’t include here because it’s still a big WIP.
Yup, if enough people switch to graphene big G will fuck them over. Exiting entirely is the only long term solution.
No, linux
Couldn’t agree more Especially when the Pine Phone Pro is improving every year since its has came out and with Posh shell and Waydroid nothing will stop Linux from succeeding in the modern era
sadly
The PinePhone Pro was officially discontinued in August 2025, as it didn’t sell well enough to keep production going.[7]
Aw shucks now that’s something you don’t see often on the internet
So what can I buy now?
My tears, maybe I can afford to eat today.
I’ve been following this for a while.
You have two main branches to follow
Bare‑metal (native Linux kernel + native drivers) pros:
- True Linux kernel
- Long‑term maintainability
- No Android blobs in userspace
- Cleaner architecture
cons:
- Driver support is the biggest pain point
-
- Modems, cameras, GPUs, sensors often require reverse‑engineering
- Power management is worse
- Hardware acceleration may be incomplete
- Fewer devices are viable
You can put this on an old pine phone, or a pixel 3 or a fairephone 4/5 You can buy a preconfigured puresim librem 5 Battery life is pretty rough. You can find lots of youtubes recounting their attempts at daily driving both PostmarketOS, Puresim and UBPorts on bare metal
Halium‑based (Linux userspace on top of Android hardware abstraction)
pros:
- Excellent hardware support (camera, modem, GPU, sensors)
- Better battery life
- Runs on many more devices
- More stable than bare‑metal
cons:
- Controversial in the community
- Relies on Android blobs
- Not “pure Linux”
- Kernel is usually Android‑based, not mainline
- Long‑term maintainability depends on Android vendor support
You can buy preworking models from Volla or you can put it on a Fury Phone there are a number of options for used phones if you want to install it yousel.
IMO, If you want a daily driver with working cameras and good battery life, Halium is usually the practical choice.
You also have to beware of usage in some places, looks like most of the carriers in Australia will refsue to active VoiceOverLTE even though the phones support it.
TD;DR
(FOR EVERYONE)
Here is the petition that we all need to sign:
https://www.change.org/p/stop-google-from-limiting-apk-file-usage
(FOR DEVELOPERS or “DEVELOPERS” 😉 )
Here is the form that we need to fill:
(Please UPVOTE this so others can see!)
What does this mean for GrapheneOS and similar degoogled android versions?
Nothing changes for now but other moves by Google clearly show they are trying to kill 3rd party ROMs by locking down Android’s code. In my opinion, unless EU steps in and mandates phone manufacturers and Google to support google free apps we’re fucked.
EU wants phones to be locked down so they can then make Google implement mass surveillance for “national security” reasons
What are you basing this on? If you say “Chat Control” I will just ignore you.
Chat control is an issue tbough why ignore it?
Chat Control is not implementing mass surveillance and has nothing to do with national security. I that’s their only argument they are confused and there’s nothing to talk about. If they have other arguments I would like to hear them.
It likely is not their only grievance as other things exist like porn blocking, ID implementations and VPN discussions.
Also chat control is reviewing private conversations. It is a provacy breach. There is no circumstance where this is not abusable. Here are some truths to how the law is presented:
1: nothing can be seen, only if certain pre registered files are recognised 2: politicians, military and associated personnel are exempted.
Meaning it can see more than nothing or else it is acceptable for these people to possess these materials.
It is also able to controlled a granular level person to person.
Porn blocking? In EU? I heard about it only in UK. Which EU countries block porn?
ID implementation… yes, all EU countries have ID. Many have digital IDs. What’s with it?
VPN discussion isn’t really proof of anything. Even Chat Control 2.0 isn’t approved yet, it’s just a project. VPN blocking is not even a proposal. It just someone mentioned in some report. Hardly a reason to claim that EU is becoming a surveillance state.
You live under a rock my friend.
Look at history. Look at the anology of how a frog will not jump out of boiling water if the temperature is slowly increased.
They are slowly increasing the temperature, and chat control is a big step for them. If you cannot see that then there is no hope for you
Repeating some scary conspiracy theories you read about online doesn’t make you informed. It makes you naive.
The EU has no interest in allowing privacy on devices, since it is increasingly attempting to control alternative narratives. We’re in touching distance of the Fourth Reich now.
Europe has explicitly no problem with this. They showed they have the power to censor Russian media but refuse to do this with European far-right, they just want the local fascists to win.
This describes the EU, in a nutshell https://theuaob.substack.com/p/the-comprador-calculus-why-europes The fascists have already won.
Even the premise is too generous:
Why would the leaders of the EU—a project ostensibly built on peace and sovereignty—
How on Earth is the literal cradle of Fascism and colonialism built on peace and sovereignty? The EU is built on neoliberalism and anticommunism, it cannot be built on peace or sovereignty.
Remember that the EU arose in part from the institutions set up to deter the same type of nationalist fascism rising again, such as the ECSC. Sadly, we may have encouraged Russian -funded American -spread international fascism in its place, although they don’t seem to control the EU yet.
Fascism is not even Russian funded or American spread, Europe is perfectly capable of growing its own fascism as we saw 100 years ago, sadly we’re going down the same road.
Oh christ just fuck off you absolute asset
Criticizing European colonialist roots makes me an asset? Welp, guess I should instead join the massive far-right crowds in Spain chanting that Muslims should be expelled and that Spain brought culture and technology to its colonies in America
Would not be sure about that. There has been steps in opposite directions in the past. Remember the regulation regarding 3. party app Stores on IOS, or even further back in the past the “Free Brwoser Choice” in MS-Windows.
It is surely called competition law?
I’m dumb But using grapheneos How would them locking down the code affect graphene?
Some apps require google play, like android auto and maps.
I’m using grapheneos with open street maps, so I don’t think there would be any problem with that. There is a work around to load some apps that require google play with out a google account. I’m guessing that is what would be affected.Graphen is based on AOSP - Android Open Source Project. As the name implies, that’s the part of Android that’s Open Source. Google publishes this code, Graphene OS people modify it and release. All bugfixes, security fixes and new features go there. Google first stopped accepting contributions from other devs and now they are limiting how often will they release AOSP and how often will they publish security fixes. This makes development of Graphene OS more difficult and it looks like Google’s ultimate goal is to make Android closed source. Graphene OS doesn’t have the resources to develop Android by themselves so this would probably kill the project.
While it does not affect them directly, it is unlikely most app developers will give significant effort to only support a small percentage of Android users running custom ROMs. So while GrapheneOS users will be able to install apps, there will likely not be that many apps to install.
Edit: What I mean is that most applications will have to choose to either agree to google terms and identify themselves, or develop only for custom ROMs, or stop developing altogether. And I don’t think many will choose the 2nd option. Also, 1st option may not be available if google does not like your app.
The european movement away from american stuff however is increasing, I’m hopeful that Jolla, Fairphone and the ROM world will actually increase in importance and numbers
It’s the other way around. GrapheneOS users will be able to install all the apps but stock Android users will not be able to install apps from F-Droid and other alternative sources*. F-Droid will lose access to about 99% of the market.
*Technically it will still be possible for open source devs to distribute apps to stock Android users but it will require handing Google your personal information and setting up way more complicated build configuration.
Yeah, uh, no alarm bells in the market watchdogs? None at all?
Please see the edit with clarification, since I guess I wrote it poorly and multiple commenters did not get my point.
I’m writing this on a GOS Pixel tablet with only free/libre installation sources. There are quite enough applications to install.
Please see edit of my comment. Since it seems my point did not get across, I elaborated. Of course there are plenty right now since there are no barriers yet.
GrapheneOS is not limited by Google, as long as the bootloader is unlockable and Google contnues releasing the sources. Longterm, the GOS project needs to support alternative hardware platforms.
There are Linux tablets, so if Android is dead open source developers will support these.
It means they fork and they’re going to need funding to keep up with security work at least.
How do we defend our privacy on Android now?
Privacy isn’t really in their interest. They feed off our data.
That’s obvious, but before, we could use GrapheneOS and F-Droid etc to defend it ourselves. I’m not expecting Google to help, just hoping the resistance has something up its sleeve too.
I’m basically am doing exactly this. But I’m only on GrapheneOS as I had to compromise on some closed apps that refused to run on LineageOS. GrapheneOS means I can compromise on Google a bit without being completely compromised by Google. The market and geopolitical problem remains.
Never could. Power of thousands of paid developers against a few. That’s like finding all needles in a haystack, and power determines the size of that haystack and the amount of needles.
You can’t use something that cost that much to make and expect to divert from what the producers intended.
Fuck you Google. I won’t do further updates on my Pixel and the moment I run into an issue I’ll move operating systems or phones if required. Half my apps don’t come from Google Play and I don’t want the developers to have to register with Google for anything.
How do I "uncertify"y Android device? Install a fork I guess. Shame it’s not as easy as installing a new OS on the desktop.
It is, if you can unlock the bootloader.
It should be illegal to not allow unlocking the bootloader, but it is very common.
Maybe the only good use of AI is someone automates reverse engineering drivers for mobile.
So basically they wanna be Apple.
Is GraphenOS tenable to use as a daily driver?
I have found it good
Are you pretty much able to do everything you need? I don’t even love using my phone but when I use it its kind of critical. Things like maps while driving. Does that work alright?
I am. You can install Google Play services in a sandbox. One of my banking apps works the other does not, but I prefer to do that over web on a desktop anyway. Otherwise I get pretty much everything off of f-droid.
Absolutely.
Absolutely. You won’t be able to use tap to pay, and the Google Wallet app doesn’t open for me. Certain banking and finance apps might require some additional compatibility settings to be enabled. Otherwise it’s been an extremely smooth experience for me.
Cool. Currently I try to use Mobile Pay for everything, but the privacy is more important for me. I’m on IOS right but I’m tired of Apple and hate Google’s privacy policies. So I’ll def get a refurbished Pixel and try out Graphene. Thanks!
