For those that don’t want to read the article:
Tesla is going with buttons on the steering wheel instead of a stick to the left of the wheel
In Norway, you have to indicate your exit in a roundabout by activating your turn signal, and he found it difficult while turning the steering wheel, which you have to do in a roundabout. A driving student would fail their test if they don’t activate their turn signal in a roundabout in Norway.
He said:
I tested the Model 3, and noticed that I lost both focus and direction in roundabouts. It’s not directly life-threatening, but you run the risk of both driving on curbs and other cars if there are two lanes.
After posting his findings in a group for driving schools, he was met with agreement by many other instructors who said that they experienced the same issue and the risk is much higher with students.
It’s like car features that have been around for 70+ years are the way they are for a reason.
It should be painfully obvious by now that Elon Must is one of those “I know best” Pigheaded Ignorants.
He always “knows best” so almost a century of auto engineering verified by trillions of hours of actual field use are meaningless next to his “superior” ideas (which whilst looking like UI design are painfully devoid of actual UI/UX expertise).
It’s the same reason why when he started Tesla he tried to fully automate car manufacturing whilst having zero experience in auto manufacturing and it blew up badly and all his early factories had to be retooled and hire actual auto-workers.
No wander he turned out to be a rightwing-nutter: In my experience “I know best” Pigheaded Ignorants is one of the most common personality profiles in that tribe.
Reminds me of the guy that built that sub that got crushed. There are standards in place for good reasons and ignoring them is a bad idea.
Yup, and just like the sub Tesla did multiple things that were substandard because they worked in controlled environments and even worked ok the real world for a short time before failing.
People who actually know how to signal in a roundabout are a rare breed. Dunno how it’s in other countries but the German rules actually make sense: Don’t signal when entering. There’s exactly one way to go, so why would you. Don’t signal when driving around the roundabout as that’s straight ahead (even if it’s a circle). Do signal before the exit you want to take, this is for the benefit of people waiting to enter (or maybe those behind but only on 2-lane roundabouts). As a corollary: If you signal while you enter you’re pining straight for the first exit… but honestly avoid it too many people signal wrong so it’s better to not play fast+loose.
in the Netherlands people often do signal left while on the roundabout but that feels mostly because of cyclists who also do so.
Do they have cyclists and cars in the same roundabout at the same time?
Do any of them survive?
That’s not the way I learned in France, where they make you signal left before entering and use the inner lane, only if you’re going further than halfway through the roundabout.
You signal right before entering only if you’re taking the first exit.
In any case you signal right after driving past the last exit before your own.
Wtf, seriously? I’ve tried using media buttons on the steering wheel during a turn. It’s not reliable in the slightest, because it’s a moving target.
Does the non circular steering non-wheel never go past 90 degrees or something?
I once accidentally dialed 911 from my steering wheel phone buttons while pulling a turn. Surprised the shit out of me and the dispatcher didn’t sound like this was the first call of the type. This is a fucking terrible idea.
Tbf you are supposed use the signal before turning wheel
Covered in the article. In Norway you are required to signal when exiting a roundabout. It’s a fair concern.
Tesla is going with buttons on the steering wheel instead of a stick to the left of the wheel
Its even worse than that. The buttons are smooth surface (like a touch screen) with haptic feedback. These are truly a horrible idea:
If I had one of these Tesla cars I’d look into retrofitting the stalks back in.
Tesla’s reasoning for going away with a method universally used for signaling turn for decades is that it enables them to remove a physical part, the stalk, and it believes activating a turn signal will soon be unnecessary with the advent of self-driving.
Why the hell do billionaires keep laughing in our faces? I swear every time one of them or their companies opens their mouth, it’s like they’re making fun of us, the poor people.
“We care about your privacy” — (they don’t) “a turn signal will soon be unnecessary” etc.
a turn signal will soon be unnecessary with the advent of self-driving
That’s like not including a stick for the manual transmission, because the automatic one is just around the corner.
I wish I possessed this kind of optimism in my daily life :D
it believes activating a turn signal will soon be unnecessary with the advent of self-driving.
Okay, but self driving hasn’t happened yet and still faces significant problems. Removing a turn signal for this is like smoking constantly because you think cancer will be cured in the future.
Plus it breaks one of the unspoken rules of new designs. You never take away functionality, you only add it.
And worse is that people have been complaining about the lack of buttons and knobs for some time already.
I didn’t realize Tesla’s even came with turn signals. They must be hard to find because they never get used.
I swear to god Tesla drivers are going for the worst drivers award.
Just let your fucking car drive itself if you cannot.
Tesla was all like “hold my beer” to the BMW club.
The Cybertruck definitely has them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B75R6sN0obE
Tesla’s even
Odd too. Or did you pluralize with an apostrophe? If it’s the latter, you’re sentenced to repeat the third grade.
Imagine being this condescending about grammar on an international forum.
Words matter not if understand you.
Leak of Tesla’s next-gen Steering wheel:
You can grip a lot more of it, so it would objectively be an improvement.
PLEASE, give us the sounds, too! :-)
Tesla fucking up traditional driving controls only make sense if their self-driving system is working so the driver has no need to touch the steering wheel except in rare case. How good is Tesla’s full self driving these days?
Full Self Driving is still in beta stage.
AI DRIVR has good content on Tesla FSD if you’re actually interested in knowing how good it is.
No, I’m actually interested to know. Are most Tesla owners activate self driving during their daily commute? Tesla doesn’t sell their vehicle here so the only times I actually see a Tesla are in car shows.
We’ve had news stories - and a friend’s coworker too - of people sleeping on the highway portion of their commute. The friend’s coworker did it daily for months, setting an alarm when it was probably going to be ‘street’ driving time so he’d wake up and be ready.
The friend’s coworker did it daily for months
That’s both extremely stupid and irresponsible but also quite impressive on Tesla’s part.
They say it’s beta but beta would imply that it’s at least somewhat close to ready, which it clearly isn’t even after being in “beta” for a long ass time.
Even if it were ready, what proportion of buyers spend the extra $12k to get self-driving?
It regularly kills people. It can’t be used on a lot of road types (but people still do because Tesla makes no effort to prevent it). It’s still marketed as Full Self Driving despite the fact that Tesla has stated on the record that it is, and I quote, “Not capable of driving itself.”
They’re trying to have their cake and eat it too. Any time it benefits them, they claim that their cars are completely autonomous vehicles powered by the most advanced AI. Any time they get their wrists slapped, they claim that it’s an assistive feature like cruise control that cannot and will not ever replace the human behind the wheel.
Tesla’s reasoning for going away with a method universally used for signaling turn for decades is that it enables them to remove a physical part, the stalk, and it believes activating a turn signal will soon be unnecessary with the advent of self-driving.
Spit my drink up a bit when I read that.
Meanwhile Teslas are quickly building a reputation of being impossible to repair, so replacing an industry standard component that never breaks for a digital system is a great way to keep the title.
will soon be unnecessary with the advent of self-driving.
by next year, they said for the umpteenth time this decade.
Yeah, it’s not designed with roundabouts, (i.e. road infrastructure designed with logic and common sense) in mind.
It’s not designed with any common sense in mind. They just figured they could a) cut costs and b) make the vehicle look “cleaner”, because Musk and the people who work for him are intellectually incurious morons who refuse to learn why things are designed the way they are before trying to reinvent them.
The thing about breaking the rules is that if you want to really do it well, you have to understand why those rules exist in the first place. That’s hard to do when you start from the position of just assuming that you’re smarter than everyone else.
i am not sure they even kept the cost down since they had to reintroduce the option of normal steering wheels, this just another case of Musk thinking it looks cool so it should be, but then done poorly because they don’t have the engineering expertise to do it properly like lexus did it
This is just another case of Cybertruck shit.
How did Lexus do it?
How did Lexus do it?
It was designed to cut costs and hope fanbois would think it was innovation. It’s so dangerous a change it should be banned in countries where drivers are expected to properly indicate while traversing roundabouts.
Cuz that’s the only place you want to signal intent to other drivers?
Style over substance, and a ugly style at that. Of course lots of people are gonna love it and say it is the best thing ever.
Hey just like web and software design.
lots of people are gonna love it and say it is the best thing ever.
Kind of funny reading this in a thread filled with a bunch of tripping over each other trying to show how they hate Tesla the most.
Sometimes I need to disable the limiter, which happens to be a button in the same position as Tesla put the turn signal buttons, while in a turn, and it’s just impossible.
You need to disable the limiter mid turn? Are you trying to power slide?
Why else would you buy a rwd car
The new Tesla Model 3 should be banned from the whole of Europe until they put the indicator stalk back. It is virtually impossible to safely and legally traverse a roundabout without it.
How do people indicate without it? Is the car supposed to automatically turn it on once it senses you leaving the lane?
It has little buttons on the wheel for left or right instead of a stalk. Problem is when you’re going through a roundabout you’re twirling the wheel around so it is almost impossible to to know where the buttons are at any given point in time. A stalk stays put, the buttons are anywhere depending on where the wheel is at. I think this video demonstrates it most clearly - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBFxbKTEWu8
What the fuck is the point of an indicator after you’d already started the action. That light ain’t indicating any more about the driver than the fact that they bought a Tesla after 2022, and that tells you everything you need to know about them.
That’s just too late to signal…
When I drive roundabouts I keep my hands on the wheel in the same spots so in relation to my thumb, the turn signals are in the same spot?
I think if the wheel wasn’t a yoke shape, it’d be different because I might just put one hand on top, but in this case it works OK.
they are the most advanced company in cost-cutting. They will put everything in 10 sub menus on the screen instead of costly buttons. And the people are confused, they see big screen they think cool. But having metal physical buttons and crowns with haptic feedback is just on another level 🤤. Especially those crowns where theres a silent click that you feel with every turn. Feels so fricking good damn.
Why is The Witcher featured on the Tesla screen?
While in the EU Teslas were already “banned”, if you want a proper cat B license, and not just a cat B(78). If you take the test in a car with automatic transmission you get a code 78 license, with which you can legally only drive automatic transmission vehicles.
Is the EU mostly manual transmissions?
In the US, seeing a manual transmission these days is somewhat rare. I used to work at a car dealership’s service department as a valet, and most of us younger guys who’d never driven a manual before had to get someone else to drive it whenever one showed up. (That happened maybe once a month or less.)
Manuel transmission used to be the norm. The last couple of times I rented a car/got a loaner at the mechanic, I was asked if an automatic would be OK. I have met people who avoid automatics altogether. Probably because they’re unsure of how to drive them. TBF the first time I test drove an automatic, the first stop I made, I was glad to be wearing my seat belt, as I was used to use left foot, push that pedal hard and then brake… My wife and I were almost climbing down from the dashboard after that.
When I said earlier that manuels used to be the norm, that’s because of the emergence of EVs and PHEVs. Our EV was our first car with no clutch.
Sooo after writing that boring drivel above, I decided to look it up on the most used second hand car platform. Turns out the about half the cars registered as pure ICEs are automatics. But then sampling the search results it’s evident that a lot of the cars on the first page, have been registered wrong, and are in fact hybrids. So I don’t have a solid figure. I’ve loitered the sales floor of my mechanic for 30mins, while my car is in for diagnosics. Looks like about 3 out of last 20 or so ICEs I’ve looked at are automatics.
Nah, automatic are common.
The reasoning is, if you know how to drive manual you also know how to drive automatic, but not vice versa.
Had a quick look at used cars here.
https://www.ooyyo.com/france/used-cars-for-sale/c=CDA31D7114D3854F111BFB6FAA651453/
Seems very much dependent on which country you’re in. France seems 50/50, Germany a lot more Automatic, Belgium prefers manual. Been to Iceland a few times and that is mostly automatic. The UK is mostly manual.
Used to be, but the transition to mostly automatic is happening as we speak
Can we just ban them entirely? Horrible cars.
I’m all for hating Tesla, but if your vehicle is approved for Norwegian roads, and is the correct class, it should be able to be used in the driving test. Why should it matter how you signal, as long as you do it? You could even do hand signals if you wanted. (PS learn your countries’ hand signals)
If you had read the article, you would know that this has nothing to do with your car. You can learn to drive whatever car you want in Norway.
Some Norwegian driving schools are making it policy not to buy Teslas as training vehicles because they use non-standard controls. They only want training vehicles that use standard controls, because that’s the best way to teach a student.
This makes sense. If most cars have a stalk, teach students to drive that way, not with the weird car that’s slowly transforming into an Xbox. If students own a Tesla, they can still learn to drive it, the driving schools are just unlikely to have that model in their lot.
the article says that it’s more difficult to use this turn signal in the roundabout ( as the button is on the wheel so its position shifted along with the steering wheel, as opposed to the static position of the stalk ) and the driver has to shift a part of their attention to locate the button The person who found this also ask other instructors and they agreed, that’s why they’re not buying this model
but IMO if I’m an ownwer of a driving school looking to buy new cars for students, I’d pick more generic one too. Students would prefer to learn how to operate most cars than a specific model. Like how most music school would prefer normal guitar than double neck guitar
