Google: “Based on this feedback and our ongoing conversations with the community, we are building a new advanced flow that allows experienced users to accept the risks of installing software that isn’t verified. We are designing this flow specifically to resist coercion, ensuring that users aren’t tricked into bypassing these safety checks while under pressure from a scammer. It will also include clear warnings to ensure users fully understand the risks involved, but ultimately, it puts the choice in their hands.”
Thank god. I would’ve ditched Android for good if this went through, and while it sounds like it would be annoying for casual users to enable unverified apps, at least we can still install them.
Good, but I still don’t trust Google and I really want Linux (you know what I mean) on my next phone.
Yes, Open Google free Android or a Linux without Google.
Isn’t the first just AOSP? GrapheneOS ships Google free.
AOSP has been neutered as much as Google has been able to. This was the reasonable next step.
True, but what I’m saying is there is an open model. If another community of devs wan’t a “Linux-based mobile OS”, they can fork AOSP like Graphene did. IE complain about Google, not Android.
Graphene works. No tracking, tons of FOSS and commercial apps, it just lacks some banking apps. One gap, vs all that exist between now and another Linux phone.
LineageOS is another option for other phones, also far ahead of other Linux ideas.
Yes, but you can expect almost no useful updates from AOSP anymore, which means it’s up to groups like those who develop GrapheneOS to keep up with what people expect while Android ostensibly keeps advancing, and they only support one hardware line.
Yes, but in 12 months a Linux phone won’t even be close to where even 4 versions ago Android is. As long as Graphene (or Lineage, or Fairphone, plenty of models) keeps the security updates covered, there are good options out there.
So the question becomes when, not if, a Linux phone reaches parity with AOSP-based phones.
That’d be nice, but Linux on phones is still a pipe dream.
AFAIK Faiphone 4/5 and OnePlus 6 are in a very good state on PostmarketOS and continually improving. I don’t think it’s unrealistic to say we’ll have fully working devices in half a year - year with the amount of progress that’s happened since the PinePhone and was boosted again by the original Google announcement.
Look at furios’s phones. They seem yo work.
Having no call audio on FP5 is a dealbreaker to me, but if it’s only 4g/5g calls and BT audio and mic works I’ll gladly use IP comms only. Need to dive a bit deeper I suppose, and the incentive will come from Google.
I mean, you can run a Linux phone now:
Downside is that aren’t going to have a large software library optimized for touchscreen use. The hardware options are pretty disappointing compared to Android. Not all hardware functionality may be supported, if it’s on a repurposed Android phone. Android or iOS software is mostly designed to expect that it’s on a fast/WiFi connection some of the time and on a slow/limited mobile data link some of the time and be able to act accordingly; most GNU/Linux software is not. Battery life is often not fantastic.
I still haven’t been pushed over the edge, but I’m definitely keeping my eye on it. I’m just not willing to develop software for Android. I know that GNU/Linux phones will stay open. I am not at all sure that Android won’t wind up locked down by Google at some point, and over the years, it’s definitely shifted in the locked-down direction.
My current approach is to carry around a Linux laptop and try to shift my usage more towards using the Android phone as a tethering device for the laptop, to get Internet access everywhere. That’s not always reasonable — you need to sit down to use the laptop — but the only thing that the phone really has to be used for is dealing with text messages and calls. If you really wanted to do so, as long as the laptop was on, you could run SIP to get VoIP service off the Internet from a provider of that from the laptop over the phone’s data service, not even rely on the phone’s calling functionality. The laptop isn’t really set up to be able to idle at very low power the way a phone is, be able to wake up when a call comes in, though, so it’s not really appropriate for incoming calls.
If I need to access something one-handed without sitting down, I can fall back to using the phone.
And it does have some nice benefits, like having a real keyboard, a considerably more-powerful system, a much larger library of software, a better screen and speakers, a 3.5mm headphones jack (all those phone space constraints go away on a laptop!) and so forth. You can move the phone to somewhere where its radio has good reception and just have it relay to the laptop, which isn’t an option if you’re using the phone itself as the computing device.
You can, though I don’t, even run Android software on the laptop via Waydroid.
I don’t presently use it in this role, but there’s a software package, KDE Connect, that lets one interface a phone and a Linux desktop (well, laptop in this case), and do things like happily type away in text message conversations on the laptop, if one has the laptop up and running.
I’m thinking that that approach also makes it easier to shift my use to a GNU/Linux phone down the line, since mostly, all I absolutely need from a GNU/Linux phone then is to act as a tethering device, handle phone calls and texts. It’s sorta the baby-steps way to move off Android, get my dependence down to the point where moving is no big deal.
FWIW I’ve been daily driving SailfishOS on various Sony Xperias for 5 years now. It’s not fully OSS, but it is a fully valid Linux OS.
I’m curious: I’m currently evaluating mobile Linux OSes to transition away from Android. What I got going right now is Ubuntu Touch on a Fairphone 5, but there’s one big drawback with this one for me: the lack of a decent native Signal client.
I’ve always planned to give Sailfish OS a spin, and I’m almost certain I can install it on the FP5 easily. But I’m not all that keen on ruining my Ubuntu Touch install, and possibly not being able to reinstall it if I want to go back.
So before I install Sailfish OS on it, can you tell me if it has a decent Signal client? If it doesn’t, then maybe it’s not really worth investigating in the first place for me.
I meant have you tried it? Do you know if it’s any good?
Yes and yes, but I have no need for it.
I prefer to use Signal’s Android version by way of SailfishOS’ App support.Ah right okay.
The Android version of Signal works well in Waydroid in Ubuntu Touch also, bu running it permanently in the background like Signal is designed to do is problematic for several reasons that make it kind of a painful proposition. But if I needed it just to send or receive a message punctually, it would be a great solution.
Okay then, it sounds like Whisperfish might work well enough as a primary Signal client to make SailfishOS worth giving a spin. Thanks!
I saw there is pine phone that is supposed to have Linux or it doesn’t? Didn’t look much into it but was thinking about trying it out.
The Linux phones that exist today (including Pine Phone) are more like early dev kits. They have really weak specs, are incredibly buggy, lack all sorts of features you’d expect, and I’m not totally sure if you can even make calls through them because phone carriers require a verified device and proprietary tech to work.
There are efforts to get things in order but these will take maybe 10 years at this rate.
I have a pine phone - they’re super neat because linux on a phone! but… not really usable yet. Not getting texts, random bugs (they fixed the one where you could only receive calls, not make them, but that took a year or more), incredibly laggy UI even just trying to navigate,the battery life is abysmal, the battery management hardware is lacking and the software is even worse, the UIs that exist are poorly supported, basic apps are decently represented but anything not built for mobile is going to be godawful to get working (esp. through something like waydroid), the UI stabbed my puppy, the devices are so underpowered you’re gonna be unable to do things like have two apps open at once or have a video playing in one tab while trying to navigate in another…
The pro phone has supposedly improved the hardware issues, but it’s new and niche enough that I haven’t seen much of a consens emerge (or hardly any in depth testing at all, really). Fairphone is much more usuable, still not without it’s glitches but much better than the pinephones.
It’s great that smart people are working on this, but I don’t think we can expect hobbyists to make a useful OSS implementation of smartphones. Especially since there is so much dependence on the hardware. We either need a company that can throw some weight behind it, or just straight up governments that value it (e.g. from a sovereignty point of view).
Linux on phones or desktops suffer from one major problem as I see it, too much choice.
You make a Windows app it has to work with the latest couple versions, same with Mac.
Make one for Linux and you have to test it against dozens of popular distros, package it in multiple ways, and hope the dependencies are gonna match.
It’s an awesome system for IT people and server admins, but for the end user, ehhh… That seems to be the problem things like snap and flat packs are aimed at fixing, which could transition to phones but first you gotta herd the cats into an agreed state.
Why would multiple distros be a factor? A Linux phone would be its own unique distro.
The issue is device firmware. The OS has to fit the phone, not vice versa.
In itself true, but if you have several competing distros then you run into the problem of attracting developers to the platform if none have a solid market share. It’s a bit of a chicken and egg thing, if a platform doesn’t have a sizable user base it’s hard to attract developers and it’s hard to get a user base without readily available apps.
You don’t have that many competing distros in mobile linux.
You don’t have any because it’s not a thing yet.
I think you’ve misread, I typed “many”, not “any”.
That’s not really the case. Have a look at AUR or GURU repo - most proprietary software is installed by simply applying the same steps an apt, dnf, whathaveyou package manager would.
Agreed, this was a warning shot, we know what to do now.
It’s always the same, big shocking announcement, public outcry, pushing forward with a less shocking version, public acceptance, and then rolling out the rest of the initial plan. Why do we keep falling for it?
Its like getting robbed at gunpoint. Not much you can do about it.
This is…actually a really good analogy for consumerism. When the market has little to no competition and seemingly insurmountable barriers to enter it, it can really feel like a hostage situation. At best it’s like two dudes sitting behind a desk, ripping off their hook-and-loop patches to caress their nipples while listening to our feedback.
Give a fascist an inch…
What do you suggest we do, not push back?
And btw this isn’t true. Look at how their attempt to get rid of third party cookies is going. The just rolled back like their fifth attempt/rebranding of it
Breaking up the Google/Android/Chrome monopoly would be a good start
Don’t consider this a win, guys, this is more of an ‘Oh shit, we’re screwed if we follow through with this right now’ moment, there’s nothing stopping them from walking this back at a later, less turbulent date when no one’s paying attention, and locking Android down anyways, as this directly reminds me of the situation which caused WEI to be scrapped.
Also, the EU pushing Chat Control through the back door might embolden Google to both try an Android lockdown just like was going to roll out before, and try WEI again, and get both actually pushed through somehow.
I wouldn’t even be surprised if MS were emboldened to try to lock down PCs… Again…
Users only need to eat half of a shit sandwich!
This is less terrible news, not good news.
Straight from the playbook. Announce something terrible, then back off with something bad. Everyone calls it a win.
See: Wizards if the Coast, Unity
Rockstar too
And 5 years they’ll try it again.
Do terrible thing A to test the sentiment, probe the reaction, backpedal a bit, admit caveats and facilitate pre-planned option B, try again after a few days and gocus on it died down.
At one point we’ll need diff monitoring on the TOC and all other legal imprints :|
That’s not good enough. They’re just going to keep lightly pushing against the bad publicity until everything not controlled by Google on your phone goes away.
We need an alternative made without googles shitty hands in the mix. This forced duopoly between Apple and Google sucks. No phone competition in the US also sucks. Overpriced Samsung or a Google phone, while companies Like Red Magic have fan and liquid cooled phones with huge batteries, more ram, and more storage, for less than a grand being sold around the rest of the world outside the US.
Stop it. You’re reminding me why I want to move my family out of the US. Its not just phones, everything is a facade here.
We need an alternative made without googles shitty hands in the mix. This forced duopoly between Apple and Google sucks.
That goes for MS and Apple on the desktop too, and allegedly Google is trying to enter that space as well for the umpteenth time.
At least as far as PCs are concerned, they’re still unlocked at the bootloader level, despite MS’ attempts to lock that down, and there’s nothing stopping you from installing Linux or BSD on your PC still. Mobile devices outside a handful which aren’t locked down, unfortunately don’t have that luxury.
Yep. I’m running Linux on all but one of my machines. You at least have the option with most any PC. There’s a very quickly dwindling option to do the same with phones.
Google: “Based on this feedback and our ongoing conversations with the community, we are building a new advanced flow that allows experienced users to accept the risks of installing software that isn’t verified.
I’ve been side loading apks since I bought my first Android phones and am much more concerned about malware “safe” apps from Google’s Play store. Google’s quality control is shit.
So I just read what they are going to do and this article is just clickbait. Basically they still want you to dox yourself but it’ll still work like iOS Test Pilot. Google is still full of shit and lies but hey at least you don’t have to pay them money until enough users download your app if you want more.
So it’ll basically still kill apps like F-Droid or you downloading an app from the internet to run on your phone. You’ll basically have to signup to install third party apps on your device per app in general and alot of the convenience and developer community will still just leave android as a whole.
All in all really bad decision on Google’s part while also extending this to things like fireOS or whatever the fuck the Quest 2 and 3 will run as a skin of android. This will make sure they would be forever stuck on older versions of android; lest they have to contend with the new upcoming android features that will enforce this that will be baked into the operating system next year. Even without Google Play Services like I read.
Personally I don’t think developers should have to sign up to Google and provide ID cards to basically have a limited amount of users use their specific app outside the app store.
Google obviously is feeling threatened by better apps that more people are using on platforms like F-Droid compared the outright subscription based shitware and adware on the playstore. Which is why they are doing this. But like platforms before like inturn Symbian. I personally think it’ll fuck them over so hard that’ll they’ll never recover while China or whomever else makes a new platform for you to run android apps on for a time before going all proprietary fucked up Linux. Just like Android again.
Google also extending this to things like fireOS
it would not, because fireos was based on ancient versions of android like android 11 or earlier, and the block is enforced via google play services which isn’t present on there.
but new fireos doesn’t run android apps at all. New devices temporarily run android apps on a VM hosted on AWS servers and then stream the video, but only if those apps are distributed on the amazon appstore, and it’s a stopgap until the devs make their apps compatible with the new OS.
And old fireos devices will start to gradually uninstall “dangerous” sideloaded apks
… continues to make Play Integrity an integral part of Android and making all the stupid banking and govt apps requiring having it on your phone thus making it harder to de-google.
still no… fuck you.
Degoogle now before they install their malware on your device(s).
If you can get your hands on a pixel, get grapheneOS. If not, get LineageOS or degoogle your phone. With LineageOS you’ll have to make do with internet banking instead of banking apps.
Not to be that kind of guy, and I upvoted your comment, but isn’t it ‘make due’? I might be wrong, however.
I’m glad banks around these parts don’t require an app to function.
$100 says they’re just going to make it require adb.
I’m guessing they’re going to hide it in developer tools with a bunch of warnings and no explanation on how to get there so regular users don’t turn it on by accident.
Which would actually make sense.
Did you read the article?
The company is building a new ‘advanced flow’ that allows these users to accept the risks of installing unverified apps. Previously, the only permitted method for experienced users to install apps from unverified developers was to use ADB.
If you need to use adb to set a flag once that’s not too bad I suppose…
Oh no nothing so user-friendly. They’re gonna require them to be loaded via adb every time. And they’ll say that’s the only way they could do it for security or some shit.
That was already the case with the plan they had. This is supposedly something different.
That was already the case with the plan they had. This is supposedly something different.
They’ll make it requiring registration to enter a developer program or something to let you install crap.
Which would not be that much of a problem if not for the first 2 weeks, until someone put out a GUI to do it, with integration with app stores to download automatically the app…
oh wait…
I really hope you’re wrong
What? Can you please make an effort to learn something, anything, about what you’re discussing before commenting on it?
Adb was always going to remain a viable method of installing “unsigned” apks. Google confirmed that pretty early on.
You now owe me $100.
It’s still worse than before. Really need to break mobile away from Google and Apple. Preferably as close to standard Linux as possible
AOSP makes a lot more sense to me. We just need to adopt Graphene or Lineage en masse and start contributing to support more devices, grow that out into a real alternative with support for the already existing android app ecosystem, and real alternatives to Google Play services
Graphene doesn’t fix the problem because it’s only available on Pixel devices
Not for long. They’re going to start working with their own OEM.
Try reading what I said
Aosp makes more sense as a short term strategy, but google is making developing graphene harder, linux mobile is a much better long term strategy
It doesn’t matter, you fork into something else entirely. It’s a hell of a lot easier to leverage the android ecosystems in a diverging fork than it is to build a whole new niche platform
Linux mobile will be harder to build but in the long run will be vastly better, but it’s admittedly a very long run.
This makes no sense. Anything you can build Linux into, you can do the same to android
That’s true, but android has some pretty fundamental issues that would take some massive rewrites to fully resolve, not to mention that if we switched to linux patches wouldn’t have to be written for multiple operating systems.
Uh-huh, sure, just about protecting the users. Nevermind that actual malware is regularly found on play store, and exactly 0 times – on f-droid they’re “protecting” the users from.
Check your sources, we have had issues on F-Droid. Better than google play store though, because the average F-doid user is more tech savvy than the average GPlay user.
Haven’t heard of it, personally, except the case with introducing a vulnerability similar to the case with the xz backdoor that wasn’t merged. Would appreciate the link, tho
They are going to make this into a “1 step back 2 steps forward” type of situation. This is that 1 step back and in a few months there will be 2 steps forward where they will completely ban all non play store apps.
Something something “To bEtTEr pRoTeCt our users, please present your ID to enable sideloading”
Any day now…
Easing up? Don’t fucking touch it. Google is already annoying me with their play protect warnings.
They’ve already lost my trust. GrapheneOS or LineageOS are the only safe bets now.
safe or just safer?
