Heads-up, there appears to be some astroturfing going around. This is not an impressive demo, I’ve seen better without brain implants. If anything, I’m more impressed that the test subject hasn’t died yet.
I’ve seen better without brain implants.
Yeah, I’ve heard that they have technology that allows you to play Mario Kart with your hands.
I’ve seen better without brain implants.
Yes but I can drive a car without brain implants. Doing it with brain implants is the impressive bit.
Really not quite sure what your point is
We’ve been able to stick an electrode to the outside of your head and pull electrical activity data from your brain without invasive open-skull surgery for a couple decades now. Neuralink hasn’t actually accomplished anything new except making this same thing way, way more expensive and way, way more likely to end in death of the patient.
Those are all binary outputs, neurolink allows analog.
Totally different goals, so no nothing else exists currently.
Reading comprehension? It’s obviously implied that I’ve seen better with OTHER neural sensors, not someone just playing normaly.
Got a link to share? Nothing else can do analog inputs like neurolink can, so would love to see this tech that isn’t even been talked about yet that you’re spouting all over this thread.
ITT: People really hate elon musk but kind of don’t know why, specifically. This tech is outpaced by EEG. This tech is the greatest technological development of all time, but I wish it was under someone else. This guy will die like the monkeys, all the monkeys and pigs died also did you guys hear about this? Did you guys hear?
I think it’s a pretty bad demo. As said, EEG is capable of the same thing, intercranial EEG is capable of the same thing, and I’m pretty sure microelectrodes have also already been capable of this for a while. I think generally we’ve been capable of this sort of stuff since like the 60’s or 70’s if I’m not mistaken, but nothing ever really comes of it in terms of the commercial market. I think the biggest thing I can think of is probably cochlear implants. I hope somebody corrects me if there’s a larger thing that I’m missing there. In any case, this doesn’t really show us anything, or provide any real reason for why this is better than your other less invasive alternatives, or even why this is a novel form of BCI. Supposedly this is supposed to be automated, smaller, and cheaper than your alternatives, but it also maybe struggles with differentiating signals, and hasn’t shown any major progress towards solving the more major technical hurdles facing the technology as it currently exists. You can’t really do a demo based on a solution to both a problem nobody asked for, and you can’t do a demo for something which is basically purely for economic and convenience gains. If that’s the use-case, it seems like kind of a misunderstanding as to where this technology currently is. BCI, broadly has the potential to do some really cool stuff, but nobody’s really solving any of the major bio-compatibility issues. I think you would find more interesting similar work done with wetware and organoids, but those are all in lab settings in highly regulated and normalized environments, so they’re still a ways off from consumer use.
Everyone’s concerned about computer viruses on these things. I think the main concern is actually regular viruses, no?
This is gonna end up like those people who got an implant to be able to see, and when the company went under, they lost support and their eyesight
That’s the first thing I said when this was first posted, all those people who had the implants that enabled sight are left with no parts and no support since the company went under.
There should be laws in place stating these companies will provide support and parts for the entire life of the users. Anything less is criminal.
I would add open plans and open source so that if anything happens with the company another company can come in and pick up support easily.
Be careful what you ask for and how any laws are written. I knew a guy who became a paraplegic after a helicopter accident. He actually walked away from the accident but months/years later damage to his lower spine caused a blood clot that rendered him largely unable to use his legs.
He was wheelchair-bound when I met him, but one day a few years down the line I walked into a room to find him standing & walking. He told me he had even been able to climb a ladder to replace a light bulb. He’d been on a medical trial that was clearly promising. Unfortunately side effects piled up, he had to stop the trial, and he again ended up in a wheelchair.
Granted this wasn’t the same as a medical implant trial, but if strict laws are enacted that required companies to support medical devices, drugs, etc. then I’d be very afraid of the impact it would have on research and trials like these. No company is going to want to risk lawsuits, etc. so they’ll just stop innovating, or at least cut back a huge amount.
How do you go about enforcing this when the company goes under? (Almost like healthcare shouldn’t be private lol)
Open Source required when going bankrupt for all biomedical companies?
Better to mandate open hardware and software standards, so if the company goes under others can make parts or even upgrade the devices.
What they shown so far does not sound impressive. There is a twitch streamer that uses EEG device ans translates signals to button presses. She has beaten elden ring with that. From “achievement” point of view what they have shown here is not that special
It’s still very impressive. The EEG she uses only reads general thoughts: e.g. thinking about pushing a boulder. She can only really do specific actions with that: there’s no level of analog control (how much should this move), it’s just a single action (fire a fireball). The brain chip is likely much higher fidelity and therefore can read much finer signals. All the credit goes to the researchers, of course, who’ve spent the last decade researching and fine tuning this technology.
The brain chip is likely much higher fidelity and therefore can read much finer signals
Then they should be doing a demonstration that shows that. I don’t think Mario Kart generally requires fine tuned signals.
Mario card definitely not but maybe this cursor moving exercise does
We’ve had EEG cursors for decades. That shit isn’t impressive either.
On/off isn’t the same as being able to control the input incrementally.
EEG and neurolink are two different techs accomplishing quite different goals in the end,
There’s literally nothing about EEG that forces binary detection. Stop shilling for your slaver
Than why doesn’t the tech exist yet…?
Bullshit until proven otherwise. Dangerous and stupid regardless. And a depressing harbinger of the corpo cyberpunk dystopia whether this is real or totally faked.
I agree with your take on the corpo dystopia issue and would prefer other solutions instead of this but the sort of patients being served definitely need some significant support.
Mutahar made a video about this that gives us a rough outline of where we are at with this technology, and I agree with his opinion about using eye trackers instead of brain implants for the sort of feature they seem to provide.
It’s not even an either-or, there are WEARABLE neural sensors which don’t need to be installed inside your skull and can still read your brain patterns. This is clearly a kill button for the rich fucks to install in
workers’slaves’ heads.
Wait until Nintendo’s lawyers hear about this. Pretty sure brain chip compatible Nintendo controllers count as illegal homebrew.
Honestly it wouldn’t surprise me, Nintendo barely like allowing people to play their games. Looking at them constitutes copyright violation.
I hate Elon but love the idea of this. The utopian version, not the dystopian version obviously.
We are really going to have to make sure that regulation is solid if we want to go towards the positive utopian version.
There is no utopian version of this.
even if it were completely F/OSS including the hardware I’m as afraid of a brain accident as I am of someone purposely doing awful shit to my brain. I want what you want too, it’s just that there’s no world in which that happens.
No amount of regulation will ever make this safe or reasonable. You’re literally installing a suicide bomb in your brain which can be hacked at any point, or abused by any state. Regulation serves to discourage and punish undesired behavior - doesn’t stop it.
Same, being able to do things with your mind would be wonderful but if it comes with cost of potentially handing your own killswitch to ketaminecrazed billionaire… (or anyone). If the device isnt 100% opensource so anyone can see how it works, there is no way to know what it can do. And even if we assume it wont be used in overtly malicious way, being able to physically affects someone’s brain( be it reading or writing) means being able to absolutely control of someone.
They’re not being manipulated, though. You can tell because 100% of Neuralink users feel they’re not being manipulated at all and that their absolutely fanatical devotion to the company is because it, and its founder Galactic President Musk, are just that great!
There is no utopian version as long as we maintain the capitalist system. How long do you think “regulations” can stand against the profit incentive of every conceivable greedy ghoul out there?
Maybe I’m cynical, but this seems like something that would be incredibly easy to fake
Like all that fake data on Tesla’s self-driving cars
And that robot they were gonna release.
Not the human in a suit, the animatronic one.
What, Elon Musk publishing a doctored video making extraordinary claims as a marketing tool? I can’t imagine it.
TBH you could replace “elon musk” with “company” just as well. Unfortunately this is general behaviour that has been demonstrated more than once by companies wanting to create hype about their product.
We’ve all been playing Mario Kart with our minds already, using our mind to manipulate those fleshy sticks attached to our shoulders. It’s fuckin amazing.
The only usefulness this has is to help someone who can’t do that. And the fact that it’s attached to Elon and that all previous test subjects died and that it’s still been put in a human is pretty dystopian.
The only usefulness this has is to help someone who can’t do that.
I can’t tell if you know that the patient is quadriplegic?
I can’t tell if you know Musk wants everyone to buy his dangerous deadly crap.
Maybe, but that is not particularly relevant to the article, and
We’ve all been playing Mario Kart with our minds already, using our mind to manipulate those fleshy sticks attached to our shoulders. It’s fuckin amazing.
is quite an ableist thing to say when the subject at hand is a literal quadriplegic person playing Mario Kart.
And blocked. Have a nice day.
Lmao blocking someone for criticism? Kinda cringe if you ask me.
Probably thinks that I’m a Elon Musk fan, when the exact opposite is true. Why denounce a Musk-owned company for improving the life of a quadriplegic person when there are a million more valid criticisms to be made?
All previous animal test subjects died, including the majority that were euthanized at the end of the test period for dissection and study. There was a super high failure rate but let’s not misrepresent what actually happened.
I mean, it’s at the very edge of what science can do and realistically there’s not that much else you could do except test on relatively highly developed animals. You’d kind of expect that to happen, but I don’t see a viable alternative.
We’ve had brain-computer interfaces for DECADES, which didn’t need to be inside the skull. This isn’t bleeding-edge research, it’s just a bloody edge used to kill research subjects.
EEG is an extremely limited tech, they are looking for a way to advance past those limitations.
We can’t just not advance ever since someone might get hurt, that’s just asinine.
Working on the bleeding edge of scientific research does not relieve someone of treating animals with ethical consideration. A “move fast and break things” approach might be good for a startup and maybe even for a rocket company, but that approach isn’t okay if “breaking things” includes living, feeling animals.
What’s the alternative for brain related experiments? Just not advance ever?
Use a fucking EEG device, instead of opening their skulls and messing with their brains.
Huh, it’s almost like that has its limitations and they want to find a way past that or something…….
Yes let’s just stop at eeg since nothing could possibly advance on that… what an absolutely asinine ignorant fucking viewpoint.
Astroturfer says what?
There is no way I am putting proprietary hardware and especially proprietary software into my brain.
What if it was open source, like Threads? (☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞
No comment about the topic, im just stealing the emoji. (☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞
If you like that emoji then you’ll love this.
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I can’t believe this seems to be going so well. Cool to see!
It’s not going well - they could’ve done the same demo (assuming it’s not fraudulent) with an EEG cap and no brain implant.
EEG can’t accomplish the same thing, it doesn’t have analog control, mario cart has analog steering and in the video you can see it working.
It’s an entirely different tech meant to do something else, so no an eeg chop cannot ever accomplish the same thing.
You’re spreading misinformation all over this thread.
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So… you don’t understand the tech that neurolink is accomplishing, and you suggest another inferior option…?
And of course anyone who points out your idiocy is a shill…
Blocked now.
I’ve seen this kind of thing as well as people given an entirely new sense (a sense of direction similar to how birds can sense magnetic north) with just an EEG cap. Why would you need to implant something directly in the brain to do this?
This is how he intends to get full self drive teslas
there was a tv show with this in it. Captain Laserhawk.
Prisoners were locked in VR tubes and forced to play this taxi game endlessly.
By having someone locked inside the trunk that drives in your stead? Sounds very Musk.
I was thinking more like the patient will die, like all of the monkeys did, he’ll then take the brain and put it in the Tesla. Problem solved. I mean it all makes sense because this subject has already been learning to play Mario kart. Weehee in your Tesla
This sounds like an '80s movie plot, where the car would then seek revenge… shutupandtakemymoney.gif
I didn’t know about people, but there is no way I am getting a fucking electronic chip installed in my brain, no matter how cool it might be
It should only ever be imo used to help the disabled and that too without any involvement of someone like elon
This technology is evolving so fast it wont be long and a non invasive wearable will be able to do exactly the same.
I saw colleagues using a more robust device ~9 years ago, and it was bonkers. Completely puts Neuralink to shame.
EEG can’t input analog inputs, neurololink is accomplishing an entirely different tech, so that’s quite literally impossible. Sorry.
“Analog input” is bullshit. What are you even on about
EEG outputs binary inputs.
Are you seriously arguing without understanding binary vs analog….?
It’s funny how upset people are that disabled people are getting new tech to help them simply because bad Twitter man owns the company.
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This is fantastic, but I am extremely worried about it being in the control of Elon Musk.
You should be much more worried about the propensity for in-brain devices to cause life threatening infections no matter whose hands it’s in.
How would it be any different than a knee or a hip replacement when it comes to infections?
Because the blood-brain barrier makes your body far less effective in responding to infection of the breath.
Much higher rates (4-13% of implants) and much more severe consequences (more impactful on overall health and less innate ability for immune response).
Well now I’m worried about both.
